Feeder conductors

[cadpoint]

I would say that no OC device is needed as well as no EGC is needed run to the building. These are service conductors, and not a feeder. Unless the building falls under 547 then an EGC will be needed, if direct buried must be insulated or covered copper, but overcurrent protection at the pole is still not needed.

I hope you said all that correct. I didn't check anything, but I heartly agree.

My first thought - hmm, 6000 Sq Ft - Shed = Agricultural Buildings, Article 547.

I'd suggest a complete review of the article, and maybe a chat with AHJ about shed size limits. You have to watch out for farmers, nice people but also very cleaver.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Where is the meter for the building. Is it being fed as a separate service or is this all part of the farm system metering.

 

[ammklq143]

Where is the meter for the building. Is it being fed as a separate service or is this all part of the farm system metering.

The meter is a Form 3S and it is on a transformer pole next to the pole with the pole top disconnect.

The shed will be fed from the same service as the house, grain bins and other buildings on the farm. The shed will be used for parking and working on machinery, as well as washing it. It has a small office room and bathroom.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Well then it appears 4 wires are necessary. I am not sure why a separate ground can't be run with the triplex if it is tied to the triplex but I do remember somewhere that it may be a violation. Seems odd to me but...

 

[ammklq143]

Well then it appears 4 wires are necessary. I am not sure why a separate ground can't be run with the triplex if it is tied to the triplex but I do remember somewhere that it may be a violation. Seems odd to me but...

If anyone knows of a section in the code that would address this, please let me know. I would like to see it, because it does seem very odd that you couldn't run a separate ground conductor. Also, what defines an agri building? Even though this is in a rural area, it seems more like a commercial type shop, since there are no livestock.

I see in 547.5(F) where it says "Separate EGC. Where an EGC is installed within a location under the scope of 547, it shall be a copper conductor. Where underground, it shall be insulated or covered."

 

[kwired]

If anyone knows of a section in the code that would address this, please let me know. I would like to see it, because it does seem very odd that you couldn't run a separate ground conductor. Also, what defines an agri building? Even though this is in a rural area, it seems more like a commercial type shop, since there are no livestock.

I see in 547.5(F) where it says "Separate EGC. Where an EGC is installed within a location under the scope of 547, it shall be a copper conductor. Where underground, it shall be insulated or covered."

You could run a separate EGC to any service if you want to but if it is a service and not a feeder it is not necessary. Main bonding jumper can not be installed at the building otherwise you have a paralleled neutral instead of separate conductors.

As far as what is ag building I think what you are really asking is what is a 547 ag building. There are all kinds of buildings on farms and only the ones containing livestock typically fall under 547.

547.1 Scope.
The provisions of this article shall apply to the following agricultural buildings or that part of a building or adjacent areas of similar or like nature as specified in 547.1(A) and (B).
(A) Excessive Dust and Dust with Water. Agricultural buildings where excessive dust and dust with water may accumulate, including all areas of poultry, livestock, and fish confinement systems, where litter dust or feed dust, including mineral feed particles, may accumulate.
(B) Corrosive Atmosphere. Agricultural buildings where a corrosive atmosphere exists. Such buildings include areas where the following conditions exist:
(1) Poultry and animal excrement may cause corrosive vapors.
(2) Corrosive particles may combine with water.
(3) The area is damp and wet by reason of periodic washing for cleaning and sanitizing with water and cleansing agents.
(4) Similar conditions exist.

A building that does not house animals is not a 547 application. A shop is no different than any other shop in fact 511 could apply to the shop depending on what activity happens in this shop, grain and feed facilities are no different than any other commercial grain or feed operation.

If you have a building with combination use, some areas may have 547 applications within the area while other areas 547 does not apply.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

If anyone knows of a section in the code that would address this, please let me know. I would like to see it, because it does seem very odd that you couldn't run a separate ground conductor. Also, what defines an agri building? Even though this is in a rural area, it seems more like a commercial type shop, since there are no livestock.

I see in 547.5(F) where it says "Separate EGC. Where an EGC is installed within a location under the scope of 547, it shall be a copper conductor. Where underground, it shall be insulated or covered."

The best section would be 300.3(B)

300.3 Conductors.
(B) Conductors of the Same Circuit. All conductors of the same circuit and, where used, the grounded conductor and all equipment grounding conductors and bonding conductors shall be contained within the same raceway, auxiliary gutter, cable tray, cablebus assembly, trench, cable, or cord, unless otherwise permitted in accordance with 300.3(B)(1) through (B)(4).