Off Grid power

[Trunorth]

I was asked to see how much $$$$$ money it would take to power a cabin in Canada. This cabin has a lot of gas appliances and they use generators and small inverters.. He wants to be able to run a heat pump system and have some off grid power. I looked up different systems---solar power, wind and then some form of water generation... As you know a question like this will put a person in there chair for multiple hours rather out working---
Any suggestions on off grid power that could do the job year round?
Pricing?
Generator vs. Solar vs. wind vs hydro systems

 

[broadgage]

Depends on what the load is.
IF there is enough water, then small scale hydro can supply many kilowatts, certainly enough for generous domestic use.
Unfortunatly very few sites have enough water flow and head to generate much electricity, the capital cost can be substantial.


If there is not enough hydro, then the choice comes down to wind or solar.
Both are viable for small scale use to power low energy lighting, a laptop, a small TV, a radio and very high efficiency DC refrigeration.
Unless a vast sum is to be spent, then heating and conventional electric cooking are not feasible. Heating and cooking would in most cases be better supplied by propane, kerosene, or firewood.
The choice of wind versus PV solar depends on how windy or sunny the location is, and on whether the greatest electrictcity use is likely in summer or winter.

Another option is to use a diesel generator for heavy loads and battery charging.
Lighting and low power appliances can then be worked from a 12 volt battery bank, this saves the fuel use, noise, and engine wear from running a generator for small loads.

 

[MJJBEE]

It depends on how you look at it. From an installed cost standpoint I would go for a Natural Gas or Propane Generator. If you look at total cost of ownership small scale hydro may be better. Wind and PV systems would need another source or a large Battery Bank and are going to be nearly the same cost as small scale hydro installed.

Also your point about Year round has me thinking about freezing temperatures and other considerations that may inhibit generation on a continuous basis. You would also want to look at weather data to figure out wind and solar patterns and how many days you can expect not to generate (the best type of data is 5 years or longer). You would also want to ensure that your water source doesn't freeze in the winter.

Of course if you just want my opinion I would install a small NG or LP generator and work on the other stuff "later". I like the battery idea to reduce start stop cycles on your generator.

 

[Trunorth]

I appreciate your time. This person would like to run a ground source heat pump. I am looking into a deisel generator with some form of battery charging system and convertor. He wants to be able to keep his cabin warm while he is gone. I think he should invest in a sytem that can be used for the entire house...

 

[BJ Conner]

Got Gas?

Got Gas?

I was asked to see how much $$$$$ money it would take to power a cabin in Canada. This cabin has a lot of gas appliances and they use generators and small inverters.. He wants to be able to run a heat pump system and have some off grid power. I looked up different systems---solar power, wind and then some form of water generation... As you know a question like this will put a person in there chair for multiple hours rather out working---
Any suggestions on off grid power that could do the job year round?
Pricing?
Generator vs. Solar vs. wind vs hydro systems

If there is natural gas thats the way to go. The one I looked at had a small natural gas powered gen set in the basement. The radiator dumped heat into the basement. There were resistance duct heaters. The generator powered the house panel which ran a reguar heater and the usual house stuff.
The one I saw had a Fait engine and was made specifically for the installation. It was 1-1/2 L and pretty quite. They were used more in Europe than in this country. Don't know if their still made or where they were made.
Being on natural gas you would probably need a Butane tank for when the gas line broke or froze. :roll:

 

[ActionDave]

There are a few people I am acquainted with that have off the grid solar power; all of them have a generator.

 

[broadgage]

I appreciate your time. This person would like to run a ground source heat pump. I am looking into a deisel generator with some form of battery charging system and convertor. He wants to be able to keep his cabin warm while he is gone. I think he should invest in a sytem that can be used for the entire house...

Not certain that this is a good idea.
A heat pump heats the home whilst cooling the air, water or soil outside.
Under good conditions about 3 times as much heat is produced as would result from the same KW input to electric resistance heating.

However a diesel generator might be only 30% efficient.

A liter of diesel fuel burnt in a small diesel generator might produce 3.5 KWH, this would produce up to 10.5 KWH of heat if used to power a heat pump under ideal conditions.
Both the generator and the heat pump are costly articles that require service and repair, and might need to be duplicated to ensure reliable heating.

If instead the liter of diesel fuel was burnt in efficient oil heater it would produce about 10.5 KWH of heat. Much cheaper and simpler, far less to go wrong. Could be duplicated at relatively little cost if desired.

Presuming that natural gas is not available, which it probably is not in a remote area, I would go for an oil burning heater with a small diesel generator for battery charging and powering small appliances.

Alternatively consider a propane heater and a small propane generator.
Propane lights are available, these could be a useful standby in a remote location if something goes wrong with the electrics.

 

[LarryFine]

The heat energy in the engine coolant of the generator can also be tapped into.

 

[BJ Conner]

Engine in basment

Engine in basment

The heat energy in the engine coolant of the generator can also be tapped into.

That was the sweet thing about the natural gas engine. The basement was heated and the radiator dumped heat into the space. The only heat lost was out the exhaust pipe.

I did see a house once that had two car radiators in the heating ducts. The guy used water from a shallow well and pumped it through the radiators and then onto the grass. Red neck air conditioning for sure but it cooled a little and was cheap.