Type USE-2 conductors

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c_picard

Senior Member
Location
USA
What is your opinion of 10AWG Type USE-2 run in EMT off of the roof(array), directly to the inverter located in the basement?

Would this really be considered "interior wiring" (338.12)? It seems that would be the letter of the code, but is it also the intent to prohibit this? Why the need to transition to THWN-2 (or equivalent)?

I can see not being able to use USE to say, feed your range as single conductors run through the studs!!, but was 338 written to take PV source circuits into account?

Thanks for the input
 

c_picard

Senior Member
Location
USA
I may have just found the answer to my own question in an old J.Wiles article.

I always wondereed what that VW-1 label on the USE-2 was!

Evidently the USE wire I've been using all these years was also RHW-2(I checked) and has the flame retardent needed for indoor use.

What do you think of that?
 

jaggedben

Senior Member
Location
Northern California
Occupation
Solar and Energy Storage Installer
Why the need to transition to THWN-2 (or equivalent)?

It's not exactly an 'need', but THWN-2 has smaller conduit requirements and is cheaper. If the price difference is 20cents per foot then a $16 junction box for two PV strings pays for itself in 20 feet.
 

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
If it is only listed as USE it cannot enter the building at all for any application. USE has no fire resistance rating.

However, the USE we get is dual listed as USE RHW and because of the RHW listing it can be run inside.

http://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?contentKey=prodcatsheet7

I see where SE is permitted for indoor use in 338, but I don't see where USE is NOT permitted. (2005)

338 just says that USE is not required to have a flame-retardant covering. It does not say that it won't ever have one.

2005 338 doesn't have a 'uses not permitted' (usually xxx.12).
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
I see where SE is permitted for indoor use in 338, but I don't see where USE is NOT permitted. (2005)

338 just says that USE is not required to have a flame-retardant covering. It does not say that it won't ever have one.

2005 338 doesn't have a 'uses not permitted' (usually xxx.12).

2008 NEC

338.12(B) Underground Service-Entrance Cable. Underground
service-entrance cable (USE) shall not be used under the
following conditions or in the following locations:

(1) For interior wiring
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I see where SE is permitted for indoor use in 338, but I don't see where USE is NOT permitted. (2005)

338 just says that USE is not required to have a flame-retardant covering. It does not say that it won't ever have one.

2005 338 doesn't have a 'uses not permitted' (usually xxx.12).

310.8 tells us what type of conductor insulation can be used. Type USE is not mentioned. SE is a cable assembly and not individual conductors. The assembly is permitted for indoor use.

Add: 338.12(B) does say type USE cable is not permitted to be for interior wiring.
 
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kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Ah, but we are talking about PV.

690.31 (B) says that USE can be used where installed in the same manner as UF and UF is allowed for indoor use.

So, even though 338.12 was added (thanks for the info, BTW) it seems to be trumped by 690.

2008 NEC 690.31 says "be permitted in exposed outdoor locations". Does not mention any interior wiring methods. I take this to mean that USE cables are permitted to be used where they are permitted to be exposed at outdoor locations.
 

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
2008 NEC 690.31 says "be permitted in exposed outdoor locations". Does not mention any interior wiring methods. I take this to mean that USE cables are permitted to be used where they are permitted to be exposed at outdoor locations.

My apologies for not having a 2008 at my disposal, but has 690.31(B) been changed to not allow installation in the same manner as UF multiconductor cable?
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
My apologies for not having a 2008 at my disposal, but has 690.31(B) been changed to not allow installation in the same manner as UF multiconductor cable?

690.31 copied from 2008 NEC:

690.31 Methods Permitted.
(A) Wiring Systems. All raceway and cable wiring methods included in this Code and other wiring systems and fittings specifically intended and identified for use on photovoltaic arrays shall be permitted. Where wiring devices with integral enclosures are used, sufficient length of cable shall be provided to facilitate replacement.
Where photovoltaic source and output circuits operating at maximum system voltages greater than 30 volts are installed in readily accessible locations, circuit conductors shall be installed in a raceway.
FPN: Photovoltaic modules operate at elevated temperatures when exposed to high ambient temperatures and to bright sunlight. These temperatures may routinely exceed 70?C (158?F) in many locations. Module interconnection conductors are available with insulation rated for wet locations and a temperature rating of 90?C (194?F) or greater.
(B) Single-Conductor Cable. Single-conductor cable type USE-2, and single-conductor cable listed and labeled as photovoltaic (PV) wire shall be permitted in exposed outdoor locations in photovoltaic source circuits for photovoltaic module interconnections within the photovoltaic array.
Exception: Raceways shall be used when required by 690.31(A).
(C) Flexible Cords and Cables. Flexible cords and cables, where used to connect the moving parts of tracking PV modules, shall comply with Article 400 and shall be of a type identified as a hard service cord or portable power cable; they shall be suitable for extra-hard usage, listed for outdoor use, water resistant, and sunlight resistant. Allowable ampacities shall be in accordance with 400.5. For ambient temperatures exceeding 30?C (86?F), the ampacities shall be derated by the appropriate factors given in Table 690.31(C).
Table 690.31(C) Correction Factors
Temperature Rating of Conductor
Ambient Temperature
(?C) 60?C (140?F) 75?C (167?F) 90?C (194?F) 105?C (221?F) Ambient Temperature
(?F)
30 1.00 1.00 1.00 1.00 86
31?35 0.91 0.94 0.96 0.97 87?95
36?40 0.82 0.88 0.91 0.93 96?104
41?45 0.71 0.82 0.87 0.89 105?113
46?50 0.58 0.75 0.82 0.86 114?122
51?55 0.41 0.67 0.76 0.82 123?131
56?60 ? 0.58 0.71 0.77 132?140
61?70 ? 0.33 0.58 0.68 141?158
71?80 ? ? 0.41 0.58 159?176
(D) Small-Conductor Cables. Single-conductor cables listed for outdoor use that are sunlight resistant and moisture resistant in sizes 16 AWG and 18 AWG shall be permitted for module interconnections where such cables meet the ampacity requirements of 690.8. Section 310.15 shall be used to determine the cable ampacity and temperature derating factors.
(E) Direct-Current Photovoltaic Source and Output Circuits Inside a Building. Where direct-current photovoltaic source or output circuits of a utility-interactive inverter from a building-integrated or other photovoltaic system are run inside a building or structure, they shall be contained in metal raceways, or metal enclosures, from the point of penetration of the surface of the building or structure to the first readily accessible disconnecting means. The disconnecting means shall comply with 690.14(A) through (D).
(F) Flexible, Fine-Stranded Cables. Flexible, fine-stranded cables shall be terminated only with terminals, lugs, devices, or connectors that are identified and listed for such use.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
There is no modification in 690, so condutors or cables that are only marked "USE" cannot be used inside per 338.12(B) in the 2008 code. Prior to that, it was a 110.3(B) violation.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Ah, but we are talking about PV.

690.31 (B) says that USE can be used where installed in the same manner as UF and UF is allowed for indoor use.



No, you cannot run 'straight USE' inside for any application, no way no how. You can run USE 'in the array' the same as UF would be run.

If you want to want your PV circuits to run all the way from the array to somewhere indoors without a splice you must use dual rated USE / RHW.

310.8 tells us what type of conductor insulation can be used. Type USE is not mentioned. SE is a cable assembly and not individual conductors. The assembly is permitted for indoor use.

USE can be had as a cable assembly or as individual conductors, either way it can only enter the building if it has a RHW or other 'indoor' conductor listing.
 
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