Troubleshooting a customer's home

[Little Bill]

Service enterance conductors land right into the 100amp breaker. I left those wires attached to it, pulled the breaker off the panel, turned it on and checked the stabs. I was getting 240v through the breaker. So how could the breaker be bad? When I plugged it back into the panel, only half the panel is live. I checked 120v to ground on each leg of the buss, and only one side is working.

The same way you can check voltage at a receptacle and read 120V but when a load is on it, it goes to zero, because of bad connection or damaged conductor. I'm not saying you definitely have a bad breaker but it can happen. I've seen 2-pole breakers do that.

If you have 240v with breaker pulled off panel
but not when it's plugged in--is it possible that you only see 240v on your meter until you put a load on breaker? Maybe you thought of that and tried it installed in panel with all other breakers off.

That's what I was talking about.

 

[zappy]

The same way you can check voltage at a receptacle and read 120V but when a load is on it, it goes to zero, because of bad connection or damaged conductor. I'm not saying you definitely have a bad breaker but it can happen. I've seen 2-pole breakers do that.





That's what I was talking about.

I tested the breaker with a Wiggy. Is that enough load though? So it is possible then it's the breaker, or at the service drip loop connection?

 

[cadpoint]

It may be a split buss FPE. They were common for a while. Check for a larger 2-pole breaker that's failed (50-70amp)

I highly recommend replacing any FPE equipment.

Can someone line diagram a split bus, I think I got a thought of it but what is it ? Thanks in advance.

 

[480sparky]

Can someone line diagram a split bus, I think I got a thought of it but what is it ? Thanks in advance.

​

 

[cadpoint]

Thanks 480...

 

[480sparky]

Thanks 480...

I've got a photo of one, but durned if I kin find it. :ashamed1:

 

[Little Bill]

I've got a photo of one, but durned if I kin find it. :ashamed1:

There's a pic/drawing in the 05 handbook.

Edit: Someone had a picture on here a month or so ago. Look here

 

[Little Bill]

I tested the breaker with a Wiggy. Is that enough load though? So it is possible then it's the breaker, or at the service drip loop connection?

Not sure if a wiggy would put enough load or not. Someone with more knowledge of that than me will have to answer that. Keep us posted on what you find out with your problem.

 

[kwired]

Can you explain to me how you would get a backfed from a 240v water heater or a AC

Here is a schematic of what happens.



Hard to read information on drawing it is a little small. Here is what it says:

The 240 and lower right 120 volt load will be in series with only 120
volts applied to the series circuit. The arrows indicate the series current
path. Neither load will have its rated voltage applied to it. The amount
of voltage across each load will depend on total impedance of each series
element.

 

[jmellc]

YES. I said they need a new panel. And I gave them a price. Those hippies, there so cheap, I mean frugal.

Old hippies? Convince them that the FPE is slowly smoldering, leaking toxic fumes, & that the brand you recommend guarantees "green" manufacturing & materials. Or try the CH retrofit, a CH buss that installs into another panel can. Not sure if it would fit FPE, would have to check with a dealer where you are. Sell them on only having to disposed of the guts, not the can. If you have an old hippy in the family, take him along to help clinch the sale. Buy him a new hash pipe for his trouble.

 

[kwired]

..Sell them on only having to disposed of the guts, not the can..

The can is the most easily recycled part of that thing.

 

[cowboyjwc]

I tested the breaker with a Wiggy. Is that enough load though? So it is possible then it's the breaker, or at the service drip loop connection?

That's why I said to check the line side of the meter.

 

[jmellc]

The can is the most easily recycled part of that thing.

True, I didn't think about that.

 

[George Stolz]

True, I didn't think about that.

I recycled about six pickup loads on one job. Not a bad chunk of change.

I like the lake test, I'll have to remember that.

 

[stew]

the CH replacemant guts are not UL listed . My inspectors wont buy them.

 

[kwired]

the CH replacemant guts are not UL listed . My inspectors wont buy them.

Will they take them for free?

 

[Little Bill]

Hey Zappy

Hey Zappy

What did you find out about your problem you were troubleshooting? Did I miss something? Haven't seen where you posted your findings.

 

[zappy]

What did you find out about your problem you were troubleshooting? Did I miss something? Haven't seen where you posted your findings.

I left a message with the customer to call POCO and have them check there side. I haven't heard anything yet.

 

[stew]

Will they take them for free?

They wont take them if you gave them to them. CH is kinda cagey about what they say about the non UL issue. Guess they dont want to tell you to install without a permit eh?

 

[jmellc]

I didn't know they weren't UL listed. Some of our supply houses that sell them are in violation of NC law in that case. NC requires any electrical equipment to be listed by UL or some other approved testing lab.

Of course, not being UL listed does not mean it's not a good product. Lots of junk carries a UL label.