4-Way Light Switches

[roger]

Along with Sii's illustration the link below is an interactive 4 way switch from forum member Ronald Coleman.

http://home.comcast.net/~ronaldrc/wsb/c4.htm

Roger

 

[hurk27]

I don't see why 4 ways need any marking. You put one set of travelers on one end of the switch and the other set on the other end of the switch. In one switch position the path is straight through from one end to the other end and in the other switch position the path is in a "X" from end to end.

Back a few years ago there was one brand that did wire from side to side, travelers went to one side and out the other side, it was frustrating to get the guys to watch out for these, the bad thing was they didn't mark the screws like most do.:rant:

 

[USMC1302]

I'll second what Hurk said. I have seen them with no markings at all or colored screws.

 

[roger]

Back a few years ago there was one brand that did wire from side to side, travelers went to one side and out the other side, it was frustrating to get the guys to watch out for these, the bad thing was they didn't mark the screws like most do.:rant:

It seems as though "Slater" switches wired this way.

Roger

 

[480sparky]

Not being a Leviton installer, but aren't Leviton 4-ways wired side-to-side instead of like P&S's end-to-end? If not, they were years ago.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Back a few years ago there was one brand that did wire from side to side, travelers went to one side and out the other side, it was frustrating to get the guys to watch out for these, the bad thing was they didn't mark the screws like most do.:rant:

I guess I have not run across that layout. About 20 years ago there was a single pole switch that had the screws on the left side and not the right side....the first dozen or so of those that I installed were installed upside down as I did not even look at them...just took them out of the box and held them with the screws to the right and put the hot on the top screw and the switch leg on the bottom screw and installed the switch. One of my guys asked me at break why I was putting the switches in upside down.

 

[kwired]

I guess I have not run across that layout. About 20 years ago there was a single pole switch that had the screws on the left side and not the right side....the first dozen or so of those that I installed were installed upside down as I did not even look at them...just took them out of the box and held them with the screws to the right and put the hot on the top screw and the switch leg on the bottom screw and installed the switch. One of my guys asked me at break why I was putting the switches in upside down.

Those are switches that are supposed to be used in southern hemisphere

 

[jmellc]

I knew I had seen variations in 4 ways though I can't always remember brands. Sometimes I buy switches that come in boxes, brand more easily remembered. Sometimes an unpackaged switch, I often don't notice brand at all unless I think to look for it. Depends on how busy I am.

If called to check out any 4 ways, I still remove the 4w and check the 3w's 1st. Not uncommon to have an error there. Get them right & then I put the 4w back in and check again.

 

[Besoeker]

Please tell me that (if?) I have this right. You want to control all the lights in a small room with a total of three manual switches (i.e., near the three exit doors). Here is the control scheme:

• 
  Regardless of the existing position of the three switches, if the lights are off, then changing the position of any switch will turn them on. Also, regardless of the existing position of the three switches, if the lights are on, then changing the position of any switch will turn them off. [/list
  I believe that to accomplish this, you need a pair of 3-way switches and a single 4-way switch. I am being told that all three switches have to be 4-ways. Am I right?

• 
  
  Bit of a surprising question from a PE I thought. But well, maybe not when I think of some in the profession. I suppose I'm a fairly pragmatic and practical sort of fellow. As a professional, I know stuff. As a practical person, I can do stuff.
  
  Anyway, this what you need:
  
  
  
  
  SW2 is what we (UK) would call an intermediate switch. You can string as many as you wish in the circuit.
  No doubt you have different symbols but I'm sure you get the idea.

 

[SEO]

A

Bit of a surprising question from a PE I thought. But well, maybe not when I think of some in the profession. I suppose I'm a fairly pragmatic and practical sort of fellow. As a professional, I know stuff. As a practical person, I can do stuff.

Anyway, this what you need:

SW2 is what we (UK) would call an intermediate switch. You can string as many as you wish in the circuit.
No doubt you have different symbols but I'm sure you get the idea.

Your switch arrangement will not work as drawn turn either 3-way on and the light will still be off.

 

[rattus]

Overthinking a simple problem:

Overthinking a simple problem:

Another way to think of this is to treat it as a Boolean function. Let the positions of the switches, A, B, & C be represented in a Gray code sequence in a truth table.

000 ON
001 OFF
011 ON
010 OFF
110 ON
111 OFF
101 ON
100 OFF

With the lower switch positions represented by "0".

Enough already?

 

[charlie b]

Bit of a surprising question from a PE I thought.

Not at all. Wiring diagrams are not on the PE test, and the subject is not taught in the university. But I did believe I had it right. That said, one must take extra cautions, before telling a client that they are wrong.

In your 4-way, or intermediate switch, I believe you need another line from top left to bottom right. When you throw the switch, the two lines would be shown as one across the top from left to right, and the other across the bottom from left to right.

 

[Besoeker]

A

Your switch arrangement will not work as drawn turn either 3-way on and the light will still be off.

I agree. Badly drawn.

 

[hillbilly1]

Bit of a surprising question from a PE I thought. But well, maybe not when I think of some in the profession. I suppose I'm a fairly pragmatic and practical sort of fellow. As a professional, I know stuff. As a practical person, I can do stuff.

Anyway, this what you need:

SW2 is what we (UK) would call an intermediate switch. You can string as many as you wish in the circuit.
No doubt you have different symbols but I'm sure you get the idea.

SW2 is drawn incorrectly.

 

[hillbilly1]

Back a few years ago there was one brand that did wire from side to side, travelers went to one side and out the other side, it was frustrating to get the guys to watch out for these, the bad thing was they didn't mark the screws like most do.:rant:

The first one I ever wired (it was a Four H project in the fifth grade) I ran across the same problem, the diagram on the box showed it top and bottom, but after I wired it and it didn't work, I took a battery and a flashlight bulb and figured out how it actually did work, it was switching from side to side. Good learning to troubleshoot experience.

 

[qcroanoke]

Not at all. Wiring diagrams are not on the PE test, and the subject is not taught in the university. But I did believe I had it right. That said, one must take extra cautions, before telling a client that they are wrong.

In your 4-way, or intermediate switch, I believe you need another line from top left to bottom right. When you throw the switch, the two lines would be shown as one across the top from left to right, and the other across the bottom from left to right.

Touche'!

 

[readydave8]

They actually gave you blueprints?:lol: I've had to design every one that I've ever wired! I had one owner that wanted to be able to control the floodlights from every room in the house, ended up with two three ways and six fourways! The kicker was when he bought the floodlights, he got the ones with motion sensors!:roll:

yeah, prints are rare

 

[readydave8]

I have seen a few 4 ways that were not clearly marked & had to do a little trial & error. That's 1 of the most common punch list items I used to see. Switches worked OK most of the time, until a particular 4 way was in wrong position. I used to take the 4 way out a moment & verify correct connections on the 3 ways. Then put the 4 way back in & check all positions, change terminations as needed.

me too, now I check 1st with continuity when I put in 1st 4/way, even though they've all been the same for a long time, then don't check any more until next time

 

[hurk27]

I guess I have not run across that layout. About 20 years ago there was a single pole switch that had the screws on the left side and not the right side....the first dozen or so of those that I installed were installed upside down as I did not even look at them...just took them out of the box and held them with the screws to the right and put the hot on the top screw and the switch leg on the bottom screw and installed the switch. One of my guys asked me at break why I was putting the switches in upside down.

Don
I just ran into a GFCI I have never seen before nor would I have ever expected it to have the terminals like it did, I wish I had my camera with me at the time today, I was called to a duplex that a Hud inspector flagged a couple kitchen receptacles with reversed polarity, after some testing I found they were fed off a GFCI left of the sink, so I pulled it out an saw that both whites were on one side and both blacks were on the other side, the polarity of the GFCI was correct but the down stream receptacles were not, after pulling out both receptacles and seeing that they were wired correct, and could not locate any other place they could have been wired through I went back and removed the GFCI a second time, this time using my volt meter I found that the load white was hot, looking closer at the screw I saw it was brass with the silver screw on the other side, I have never seen a GFCI with line neutral screw having the load hot screw below it, even older GFCIs that had pig tails still had both white wires on one side and black wires on the other.:?

So I guess I have one for the "never seen before book"

 

[George Stolz]

I'll believe it! I saw a temp GFI like that a couple weeks ago! Still worked, don't know when it was made (or who made it, for that matter!)