GFI receptacles outdoors

[Bluetick1]

New member, please excuse if I tread on anyone?s toes.

I have a contractor saying, "they are not going to provide GFI outlets outdoors because the contract was bid on the 2005 NEC."

The outlets will be changed, the argument is, "who pays for the change." Contractor or Client?
The facility is industrial, a water reclamation facility,

My question, When did the NEC requirement for outdoor receptacles change to include all outlets outdoors?

NEC 2008 210.8 (B) Other Than Dwelling Units
All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified in (1) through (5) shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel:

(4) Outdoors

thanks, Bluetick1

 

[david luchini]

In NEC 2005, 210.8(B) required it for (3) Rooftops, (4) Outdoors in public spaces, (5) Outdoors, where installed to comply with 210.63 (heating, air conditioning and refrigeration equipment outlet)

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Generally there is no requirements for outdoor receptacles in a commercial establishment except for by a/c units, etc. If any receptacles were installed they must be gfci. Even in the 2011 NEC they are not required outdoors except as mentioned above.

 

[jumper]

New member, please excuse if I tread on anyone?s toes.

I have a contractor saying, "they are not going to provide GFI outlets outdoors because the contract was bid on the 2005 NEC."

The outlets will be changed, the argument is, "who pays for the change." Contractor or Client?
The facility is industrial, a water reclamation facility,

My question, When did the NEC requirement for outdoor receptacles change to include all outlets outdoors?

NEC 2008 210.8 (B) Other Than Dwelling Units
All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified in (1) through (5) shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel:

(4) Outdoors

thanks, Bluetick1

In 2008, 2005 said outdoors accessible to the public and ones for HVAC equipment.

 

[ceb58]

What was called for in the plans? As said the only ones required would be at the HVAC units. Any thing more than that is an add on paid for by the customer. Now if they were shown in the plans and the contractor missed them that is another story.

 

[Bluetick1]

GFI receptacles outdoors

We have gfi outlets installed as per plans & the 05 nec code. as far as I'm concerned it's a matter for the plant if they wish to have gfi outlets in outdoor locations that were not called out in the drawings nor spec.

 

[Bluetick1]

GFI receptacles outdoors

Generally there is no requirements for outdoor receptacles in a commercial establishment except for by a/c units, etc. If any receptacles were installed they must be gfci. Even in the 2011 NEC they are not required outdoors except as mentioned above.

___________________________________________________________________________

I thought the same thing. As per Except. N0 2:
But I've also been gigged by the city inspector on this one in the past year.

Exception No. 2 to (4): In industrial establishments only, where the conditions of maintenance and supervision ensure that only qualified personnel are involved, an assured equipment grounding conductor program as specified in 590.6(B)(2) shall be permitted for only those receptacle outlets used to supply equipment that would create a greater hazard if power is interrupted or having a design that is not compatible with GFCI protection.

He quoted this:
210.8

(B) Other Than Dwelling Units. All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified in (1) through (5) shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel:
(4) Outdoors
Electrocution and electrical shock accident data provided by the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission indicate that such accidents are occurring at locations other than dwelling units and construction sites. In addition, 210.63, which requires the installation of a 125-volt receptacle within 25 ft of heating, air-conditioning, and refrigeration (HACR) equipment for use by service personnel, has been expanded since its first appearance in the Code, from applying to only equipment installed on rooftop to now applying to any location where HACR equipment is installed, including all outdoor locations. This GFCI requirement correlates with the expanded coverage of 210.63 and affords service personnel a permanently installed, GFCI-protected receptacle for servicing outdoor HACR equipment for all occupancies not covered by the dwelling unit requirements in 210.8(A)(3).

 

[david luchini]

___________________________________________________________________________

I thought the same thing. As per Except. N0 2:
But I've also been gigged by the city inspector on this one in the past year.

Exception No. 2 to (4): In industrial establishments only, where the conditions of maintenance and supervision ensure that only qualified personnel are involved, an assured equipment grounding conductor program as specified in 590.6(B)(2) shall be permitted for only those receptacle outlets used to supply equipment that would create a greater hazard if power is interrupted or having a design that is not compatible with GFCI protection.

He quoted this:
210.8

(B) Other Than Dwelling Units. All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified in (1) through (5) shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel:
(4) Outdoors
Electrocution and electrical shock accident data provided by the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission indicate that such accidents are occurring at locations other than dwelling units and construction sites. In addition, 210.63, which requires the installation of a 125-volt receptacle within 25 ft of heating, air-conditioning, and refrigeration (HACR) equipment for use by service personnel, has been expanded since its first appearance in the Code, from applying to only equipment installed on rooftop to now applying to any location where HACR equipment is installed, including all outdoor locations. This GFCI requirement correlates with the expanded coverage of 210.63 and affords service personnel a permanently installed, GFCI-protected receptacle for servicing outdoor HACR equipment for all occupancies not covered by the dwelling unit requirements in 210.8(A)(3).

I'm not sure I understand the point you are trying to make here. The Exception#2 to 210.8(B)(4) wouldn't apply outdoor HACR equipment's service receptacles required by 210.63. Those receptacles need GFCI protection in all outdoor locations, like your quoted text states.

 

[jaylectricity]

I'm a little confused. Everybody is giving you advice on where outdoor receptacle locations are required or not required, but it sounds like you are saying that the outdoor receptacles are there, but the contractor only wants to install regular receptacles, not GFI ones.

 

[david luchini]

I'm a little confused. Everybody is giving you advice on where outdoor receptacle locations are required or not required, but it sounds like you are saying that the outdoor receptacles are there, but the contractor only wants to install regular receptacles, not GFI ones.

I think if you look again, you'll see that it was pointed out that under the 2005 NEC the outdoor receptacles wouldn't be required to be GFCI type unless the were for the servicing of HACR equipment.

 

[jaylectricity]

I think if you look again, you'll see that it was pointed out that under the 2005 NEC the outdoor receptacles wouldn't be required to be GFCI type unless the were for the servicing of HACR equipment.

Ok, so I understood your original post. But that blows me away that it wasn't required. I can't remember a time when we weren't putting GFCI's outside.

 

[david luchini]

Ok, so I understood your original post. But that blows me away that it wasn't required. I can't remember a time when we weren't putting GFCI's outside.

Well, it certainly was a fairly narrow condition that it wasn't required in the 2005 NEC. It had to be an outdoor location that wasn't a space accessible to the public. The industrial, water reclamation facility would fall under "not required" but most commercial building would, I would imagine.

 

[hurk27]

One of the things that was really brought up in the 2005 code cycle meetings was outdoor vending machines, before these were not required to be on a GFCI protected circuit, but this was changed in 2005 with the rewriting of 210.8(B) with the addition of (2) and (4), (1) and (3) were in the 2002 but as (1) and (2), (4) was added to cover these vending machines, again in 2008 it was changed again to include all outdoor receptacles with the exceptions, but there still is no requirement to install outdoor receptacles other then as mentioned.

If the area around these receptacles are accessible to the public/customers then the 2005 does require GFCI protection and it is up to an electrical contractor to meet or exceed code requirements, if not then I would say the plant should pay.

This is only an opinion.

 

[Bompa]

New member, please excuse if I tread on anyone’s toes.

I have a contractor saying, "they are not going to provide GFI outlets outdoors because the contract was bid on the 2005 NEC."

The outlets will be changed, the argument is, "who pays for the change." Contractor or Client?
The facility is industrial, a water reclamation facility,

My question, When did the NEC requirement for outdoor receptacles change to include all outlets outdoors?
NEC 2008 210.8 (B) Other Than Dwelling Units
All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified in (1) through (5) shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel:

(4) Outdoors

thanks, Bluetick1

Bluetick1,
The one question you asked is highlighted above.

You obviously must have a copy of the 2008 code book and not the 2005. Right?

One of the neat things about code books down through the ages is that they highlight changes in some way that were made from the previous version. No highlight = no change from previous version.

Unfortunately, in your case, the word "outdoors" is highlighted in the 2008 code. That means it wasn't there in the 2005 code. Sorry, but I think your contractor has a case for a minor change order if you want the GFCI.

EDIT --- I think it is humorous that the 2008 code says "locations specified in (1) through (5)" and then only lists 4 locations. I will always wonder what that fifth location may have been.

 

[hurk27]

EDIT --- I think it is humorous that the 2008 code says "locations specified in (1) through (5)" and then only lists 4 locations. I will always wonder what that fifth location may have been.

Look a little closer between the exceptions and you will see

(5) Sinks ? where receptacles are installed within 1.8 m
(6 ft) of the outside edge of the sink.

 

[Bompa]

Bluetick1,

When I made the reply above, I didn't have access to the 2005 code book and was basing my answer on a 2008 code. Checking another resource for 2005 language I find out that #4 was "Outdoors in public spaces". So you should have a good case, if you can convince the contractor that the space in question is for use by the public.

 

[roger]

EDIT --- I think it is humorous that the 2008 code says "locations specified in (1) through (5)" and then only lists 4 locations. I will always wonder what that fifth location may have been.

Your 2008 lists "5" locations

From the 2008.

(B) Other Than Dwelling Units. All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified in (1) through (5) shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel:

(1) Bathrooms
(2) Kitchens
(3) Rooftops
(4) Outdoors Exception No. 1 to (3) and (4): Receptacles that are not readily accessible and are supplied from a dedicated branch circuit for electric snow-melting or deicing equipment shall be permitted to be installed without GFCI protection.

Exception No. 1 to (3) and (4): Receptacles that are not readily accessible and are supplied from a dedicated branch circuit for electric snow-melting or deicing equipment shall be permitted to be installed without GFCI protection.

Exception No. 2 to (4): In industrial establishments only, where the conditions of maintenance and supervision ensure that only qualified personnel are involved, an assured equipment grounding conductor program as specified in 590.6(B)(2) shall be permitted for only those receptacle outlets used to supply equipment that would create a greater hazard if power is interrupted or having a design that is not compatible with GFCI protection.

(5) Sinks — where receptacles are installed within 1.8 m (6 ft) of the outside edge of the sink.

Roger

 

[Bluetick1]

GFI outlets, Industrial location

GFI outlets, Industrial location

It has been good to hear different views on this situation.

I believe I have a handle on the direction I need to take regarding the outdoor receptacles.

As stated from the 05 code, all of my HVAC maintenance outlets are GFI protected.

The rest of the outdoor receptacles in this plant will be up to the client if they want GFI recepts.

 

[bobserrano]

Whatever the version of the NEC that the EC bid on is a non issue to the inspector. Nor who is responsible for paying for installing the GFCI receptacles. What is material is what version of the NEC was in effect at the date the plans were submitted to the building dept. for review with application for permit. That is the version of the NEC that superceeds all other versions and that is the version that will be enforced throughout the length of this particular project.