Hiring, Prison Record

Status
Not open for further replies.
J

jmellc

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
Occupation
Facility Maintenance Tech. Licensed Electrician
Input please from any of you with experience in this area.

I am a small 1 horse outfit. As I've mentioned before, my help has mostly been friends I've used as available. Most of my work is residential, a few small commercial customers.

I badly need help, if I can get some cash flow. 2 of the people who have called me have records. 1 is a currently registered sex offender. Can't take that risk at all. I advertise that I/we are trustworthy in your home, around your family, etc. His online record shows various other offenses & he's well over 30. Not sure he could settle down & leave things behind him.

The other guy is mid 20's. Has a few minor offenses about 5-6 years ago. His neighbor works in sheriff's office, told me history, gave him good word. I may be inclined to give him a try.

I don't want to hold something against someone forever, but have to be careful too. My home & family are involved too, as I work from home. I used to work with a few guys on work release. We got along fine, but I was not the boss either, nothing to lose if they did not work out.

All feedback welcome from those who have hired ex offenders. If some of you are ex offenders, I welcome your thoughts too. Congrats to you if you have put things behind you. Public post or PM welcome.
 
jumper said:
Forget about guy #1.

What were guy #2 offenses and what has he done with his life since then?
Click to expand...

Misdemeanor break ins, disorderly conduct. I don't have info yet on recent history, activities. He did study electrical & HVAC with a local offenders program. Shows a bit of initiative on his part. Neighbor thinks he got in with the wrong crowd for awhile. Easy to do here, in a large city.
 
You are a business, not a charity. You have no obligation to reform those with dark histories. That said, from what little you have told us, I feel that you and your business could benefit from the assistance of a person who is already on the road to reforming himself. They tend to work harder and with greater enthusiasm, because they are motivated to succeed. I would suggest having a frank, heart-to-heart discussion with candidate #2. Tell him what you have heard, and allow him to make his own declaration that he wants to put the past behind him and achieve a future success.
 
Ah, yes ... the old catch-22.

Information. Hate the sin, love the sinner, forgive and forget we are taught. On the flip side is the question: why give a 'second chance' when there are so menay seeking a 'first chance?'

Regarding criminal records, all I can advise is to believe NOTHING. Even the official record can be misleading, as relevant information may be left out; there are always other factors that influence prosecutions and sentencing. Just as important, you have no way of knowing if something is unusual, unless you have extensive experience yourself with the criminal justice system.

Criminals lie- or at least shade the truth. They lie about what they were in jail for, and they lie about the details of the crime. My favorite example of this is the 10-year sex offender fugitive that I put behind bars: he had everyone convinced that his conviction was a variation of the 'she looked 17, was really 13- and her parents had connections.' In reality, he not only molested little boys, but did so with extreme violence; he also had a history of extreme, violent behavior. Nice guy.

A fellow contractor, as a former lawman, deliberately hired a guy who had been placed on probation. All was wonderful until the probation was completed. Absent the supervision, he quickly went back to his old habits, and soon returned to prison.

My own take? Well, during a remodel at the state prison, I had a pretty good look at the inmate population. My overall impression? The vast majority simply seemed to be guys who never matured past the 7th grade. The remainder were, to various degrees, simply evil, sociopathic predators. It can be a tough call: prison or looney bin.

One thing was clear, though: you couldn't believe anything. Period.

Our trade, as exemplified by none other than the IBEW, is a little schitzo itself. The IBEW has two conflicting programs: one aims to train prisoners as apprentices, ready to work on release; the other markets Union shops as having 'pre-screened' crews, ready to work sensitive jobs. Any sort of prison record is enough to bar a man from those jobs.

I also choke when I hear someone dismiss the 'trades' as the appropriate dumping ground for misfits, the lame, the lazy., the second-rate. Not quite the image I desire for what I consider a proud profession.

Sure, 'starting over' is tough. Just ask any of the boat people who arrived here with nothing but the clothes they were wearing. And, true, even convicts need to work somewhere.

So ... what do I suggest? Well, have you spoken to a local 'temp service?' At the minimum, hire the guy through there. If he proves himself, maybe you can sponsor him for the apprenticeship program. If not, send him back to the agency.
 
jumper said:
Something doesn't add up here. Prison for a couple of misdemeanors? That would probably be multiple class 1 offenses.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I was not clear. #1 had prison time. #2 did not. He had probation or suspended sentence, etc. I should have labeled the post as "criminal record" instead of "prison record".
 
IMO, forget the sex offender completely. He is way too much of a risk.

The other guy is a risk but so is anyone you would hire. As another poster mentioned, it is not your job to provide jobs to those looking for a second chance. I would be looking at whether the potential benefits of hiring him outweight the downsides. People truly looking for a second chance can be very motivated.

There are some things you can do. The court records are probably public records that you can get copies of. They might be instructive. It might also be instructive to talk with his probation officer(s).

It seems odd though that the two best candidates you have for the job both have criminal backgrounds. I wonder if you are recruiting in the wrong place.
 
jmellc said:
Sorry, I was not clear. #1 had prison time. #2 did not. He had probation or suspended sentence, etc. I should have labeled the post as "criminal record" instead of "prison record".
Click to expand...

If that is the case, I agree with charlie b and Bob. #2 may have potential and could be worth looking at.

I know this may sound bad, but I had one boss who get all "warm and fuzzy" with a candidate during the interview and then pop out " Oh, I need you to take an urine test when we are done."

He said the instant reaction of the candidate told him a lot. Who knows?
 
The company that I work for hires a lot of people with criminal/prison records. On average they work out really good. We have had a few "incidents" from some. They are only hired in to positions that will not require them to work with the public. Mostly grass cutters and right of way crews. I have to work directly with the public on occasion.

IMHO I would not want someone with a record, in a home or business while working for me. The liability issue comes in to play. You could hire someone with a squeaky clean record that is a criminal, but has never been caught. If they do something wrong, there is no record of past deeds and reduces liability. However, if you hire someone with a known record and something happens, most likely you will be up the creek.

If you inform the customer beforehand that you have someone on your crew with a record, do you think that they would hire you to do the job, or go with someone else?
 
jamieb said:
Hmmmm.... Interesting topic, but where does trashing the IBEW come into play.
Click to expand...

about four posts back up.... you didn't drop breadcrumbs to find your way back? ;-)

the man's observation was that the IBEW is, in his opinion, somewhat conflicted in its programs.
i wouldn't argue the point here, in any event.... talk about a thread locker......

regarding helping someone who needs a "do over", that's well and good.... and alcoholics can,
and often do, make excellent bartenders, but not in their first two weeks sober.... :-/

i've met more than one convicted felon i'd trust with anything i owned, and a number of fine churchgoing
folk i wouldn't trust with a dead cat, but that's MY choice, and bringing someone into a third parties
home, or life, without their knowledge and consent is something i wouldn't do.

i have a pretty simple test on if i would trust someone in this situation.... have they gone back and
made DIRECT restitution to the people they have damaged by their behavior?

i'm not talking "done the crime, did the time". that does NOTHING for the person they hurt.
has the person gone back and mended fences and made it right to the best of their ability?
paid back the money, repainted at their own expense the wall they tagged, whatever it was?

IF they have, and can pass a urine test, maybe.....

but in a situation where they will be in places like private residences, and retail outlets,
probably a big "no" is my read on this.

and i've got a lot of experience with dealing with people needing "do overs".... approaching
30 years worth... my BS filter is tuned pretty well.....
 
My apologies for twisting anyone's tail ... but if you think I was trashing the IBEW, you need to learn to read.

The IBEW is a very relevant, respected part of the electrical trade. It is absolutely relevant to this thread that they have not one, but two, programs that are directly related to the topic of this thread- the hiring of convicts in the electrical trade. It is also relevant that these two programs are mutually exclusive. In effect, they are training cons for jobs they'll never have.

This shows that the topic has no simple answer.
 
petersonra said:
IMO, forget the sex offender completely. He is way too much of a risk.

The other guy is a risk but so is anyone you would hire. As another poster mentioned, it is not your job to provide jobs to those looking for a second chance. I would be looking at whether the potential benefits of hiring him outweight the downsides. People truly looking for a second chance can be very motivated.

There are some things you can do. The court records are probably public records that you can get copies of. They might be instructive. It might also be instructive to talk with his probation officer(s).

It seems odd though that the two best candidates you have for the job both have criminal backgrounds. I wonder if you are recruiting in the wrong place.
Click to expand...

I didn't recruit them. They are people who called me from seeing my truck and ads in yellow pages. No, I don't recruit at the jail or courthouse.:D
 
Fulthrotl said:
regarding helping someone who needs a "do over", that's well and good.... and alcoholics can,
and often do, make excellent bartenders, but not in their first two weeks sober.... :-/

i've met more than one convicted felon i'd trust with anything i owned, and a number of fine churchgoing
folk i wouldn't trust with a dead cat, but that's MY choice, and bringing someone into a third parties
home, or life, without their knowledge and consent is something i wouldn't do.

i have a pretty simple test on if i would trust someone in this situation.... have they gone back and
made DIRECT restitution to the people they have damaged by their behavior?

i'm not talking "done the crime, did the time". that does NOTHING for the person they hurt.
has the person gone back and mended fences and made it right to the best of their ability?
paid back the money, repainted at their own expense the wall they tagged, whatever it was?

IF they have, and can pass a urine test, maybe.....

but in a situation where they will be in places like private residences, and retail outlets,
probably a big "no" is my read on this.

and i've got a lot of experience with dealing with people needing "do overs".... approaching
30 years worth... my BS filter is tuned pretty well.....
Click to expand...
Nailed it right there.
Exellent post Randy.
 
charlie b said:
You are a business, not a charity. You have no obligation to reform those with dark histories. That said, from what little you have told us, I feel that you and your business could benefit from the assistance of a person who is already on the road to reforming himself. They tend to work harder and with greater enthusiasm, because they are motivated to succeed. I would suggest having a frank, heart-to-heart discussion with candidate #2. Tell him what you have heard, and allow him to make his own declaration that he wants to put the past behind him and achieve a future success.
Click to expand...

This I agree with Charlie. I think at the same time I would tell him of your trepidation and that you will him a __week trial. Let him know that you don't want to feel that way about someone working for you and you will see how you get along. If he is a good man, he will understand and should show sincereity over a few weeks. If you still feel leery after the trial period, let him go. I do believe in paying it forward.
 
You really need to know more about the individual. Multiple offenses will tell the story, a single offense... who knows.

My son had a high school classmate that is now a registered sex offender (presumably for life) for a stupid little prank he did while at a friends house, the kind of thing we all would have just dismissed as kids just having fun when I was younger. This guy was a very nice kid, would not have intentionally hurt anyone, just happened to do wrong thing to the wrong person. He was still in high school, but was 18 and tried as an adult. I would have no problem considering hiring him over some people I do know that have clean records.
 
jumper said:
Something doesn't add up here. Prison for a couple of misdemeanors? That would probably be multiple class 1 offenses.
Click to expand...

This is really why some of these guys need a break - jumping to the conclusion that because someone who has a record has been in prison. Many, many people have been jailed some time in their life.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top