Hiring, Prison Record

Status
Not open for further replies.
I have a friend that bowls on my team, he has two strikes, meaning a third and he's gone for good. One of the nicest, hardest working guys you would ever want to meet. He's a great husband and father and I've had him do work at my house (he does concrete). We've been friends for 15 years or so.

I think everyone deserves a chance, they don't necessarly deserve two chances, but at least one.

I do agree about #1, any children in a home you're working on and you could be in big trouble.
 
Misdemeanor break ins? Isn't that's another word for stealing? (somewhat worse).
Disorderly conduct? That's a polite word for :"doesn't get along with others"
And you want to put this guy in a customer's house?
I'm sorry, I'm all for rehabilitating people, but I think you should have your head examined.
Paying 200K for a new car doesn't guarantee you a rolls royce, but paying 2K GUARANTEES you a Yugo.

jmellc said:
Misdemeanor break ins, disorderly conduct. I don't have info yet on recent history, activities. He did study electrical & HVAC with a local offenders program. Shows a bit of initiative on his part. Neighbor thinks he got in with the wrong crowd for awhile. Easy to do here, in a large city.
Click to expand...
 
kwired said:
You really need to know more about the individual. Multiple offenses will tell the story, a single offense... who knows.

My son had a high school classmate that is now a registered sex offender (presumably for life) for a stupid little prank he did while at a friends house, the kind of thing we all would have just dismissed as kids just having fun when I was younger. This guy was a very nice kid, would not have intentionally hurt anyone, just happened to do wrong thing to the wrong person. He was still in high school, but was 18 and tried as an adult. I would have no problem considering hiring him over some people I do know that have clean records.
Click to expand...

Agree, I have a friend that is on the sex offenders list. He was 18, met a girl at a party and she was a few days shy of 16, told him she was 17. Her Mom found out and he was SOL.
 
Last Leg said:
This is really why some of these guys need a break - jumping to the conclusion that because someone who has a record has been in prison. Many, many people have been jailed some time in their life.
Click to expand...

I have spent a little time in several different jails, when I was young, longest time was 6 hours, never in prison. Nothing on record. Open container, 140 MPH in a 60 MPH zone, public drunkenness without a drop to drink, drag racing on a public street, and the biggy, DUI. The DUI came from me sleeping in the back seat of my car, at a bar, when I knew I shouldn't drive. I was doing the right thing but not in the cops opinion.... By the way that all happened in the late 60's early 70's.

I am only looking at this from the standpoint of liability. People are "Sue Happy" now-days. If I knowingly hired someone with a record and they stole something or worse while on my clock I would be SOL.
 
I hired a guy with a record once. Fired him on the first day.

See, he answered "no" to the question "Have you ever been convicted of a felony" on the application.

His background check came back with the felony record. Turns out he was a wife beater. He got fired for lying on the application in the first place.
 
Strife said:
Misdemeanor break ins? Isn't that's another word for stealing? (somewhat worse).
Click to expand...
Most of the time that is exactly what it means. Although as some have pointed out you can sometimes end up being charged for something that sounds much worse than the deed.

Strife said:
Disorderly conduct? That's a polite word for :"doesn't get along with others"
Click to expand...
Most places it means contempt of cop as often as not. Aggravate the law and they will charge you with DC or disturbing, or whatever the similar charge is in that jurisdiction. Usually handled by a guilty plea and time served or a small fine.
 
It comes down to: who do you trust?

Sure, the 'system' is not perfect. There have been some pretty big failures of the 'system' over the years. Yes, I will admit that the various 'good guys' involved are sometimes not very good at all.

Still, it's the system we've got. If we're going to simply assume that every con's tale of woe has merit -or, worse yet, simply assume the con was a victim of circumstance- then we are granting the con greater virtue than the judge, jury, procutor, policemen, and victims that accused him. Open court is the only forum we have where both sides have a chance to persuade a dozen strangers of their case.

That's why I said 'believe nothing.' I've seen serial, violent, child-molesters claim their jail time was only for 'back child support,' and I've seen 'spitting on the sidewalk' convictions used to imprison violent psychopaths. It's worth noting that when a local dope house was closed down, not a single one of the dozens of convictions had anything to do with drugs. The criminal justice system is as foreign to you and I as Wonderland was strange to Alice.

Perhaps the only real answer, the only 'workable' solution, is to practice some 'tough love' and let these eight-balls work their way out of the holes thay've dug. There are plenty of deserving folks asking for a 'first' chance. Let the 'oops crew' suffer through a few years of temp work, menial labor, etc., to prove their merit anew.

At the risk of being accused of lacking respect for fellow trades .... those familiar with me know better .... I'll state the obvious: there are other trades that are richly populated with convicts. Roofers, drywall, and concrete work are three that come to mind. Oddly enough, there is also value in an electrical candidate having some skills in these areas. I submit that a few years of such experience just might remove (for me) any stigma of a criminal conviction.
 
cowboyjwc said:
I have a friend that bowls on my team, he has two strikes, meaning a third and he's gone for good. One of the nicest, hardest working guys you would ever want to meet. He's a great husband and father and I've had him do work at my house (he does concrete). We've been friends for 15 years or so.

I think everyone deserves a chance, they don't necessarly deserve two chances, but at least one.

I do agree about #1, any children in a home you're working on and you could be in big trouble.
Click to expand...

Yes, I pretty much dismissed thoughts of #1 as soon as I saw his record. I can't put my own family at risk nor a customer's family or home. Also a person's manner out & around. I used to work with some guys on a mall job. Some of us would go to the food court at breaks. They would stare at women, sometimes call out inappropriate remarks, etc. Later, some of the same guys wondered why people thought they were "too good to be around us". I quit sitting with some of them, didn't want to be seen as part of their flock. Just because our trade gets us physically dirty doesn't mean we have to be uncivilized. I can't have that from someone on my payroll. Work is hard enough to find.
 
About criminal records: Many, if not most, charges are plea bargained down, meaning the actual crime can be much more serious then the actual plea/sentence.

About former jail/prison inmates: In 30+ years in the trade and as a minister, I have found that the vast majority are pathological liars. And I think of myself as someone who tries very hard to see the good side of everyone.

I tell my customers that I won't let anyone work in their home that I wouldn't have work around my wife and two daughters. And that cuts out most electricians that apply for work: no smokers (sorry smokers, but many are slobs), no drugs (including recreational/weekend pot users), no drunks (moderate drinking OK, first time come in to work stinking or hung over, you're gone), no recent (last 5 years) criminal record.

And Fulthrottle's point is excellent: what have they done to make restitution to their victims?
 
Choices

Choices

Over half of the population is either involved in the penal system as criminals or employed by them or catching them. If you are going to do contract work on new construction hire either one of them and work with them.

I have met a lot of guys victims of wrong place wrong time. Hiring a defense is not as cheap as time or a fine. The system is rigged on the side of the prosecution.

See the person not the record. Find out if there is some sort of alegence or loyalty that can be gained by hiring either of these people. They have a right to work like anyone else. Maybe your type of work isn't right for there skill set but don't hire them because they are on the states list of undesirables.

Sue-happy, not around here. You need actual monetary damages. Scared has no dollar sign attached. Look at there skill set, evaluate there abilities, and remember that most of the US population are felons or closely associated with them.

To err is human to forgive divine. We all make mistakes. That's why they call it a mistake.
 
Gunning, I respect your right to an opinion, but you and I are 180 apart on this one.

HALF of us involved, either as crooks or employees? Where does number that come from?

"Wrong place at the wrong time?" Please .... perhaps I was born at night, but it wasn't last night.

Mistake? Mistakes are fine ... I might have a problem with a crime though. We're not talking about someone forgetting to set their alarm clock here.

"See the person..." How touchy-feely ... but until I get the god-like power to peer into a mans' soul, just how am I supposed to do that?

I can think of a FEW convicts I'd hire - G. Gordon Liddy, for example - they are very few.

Fact is, I have enought trouble with tools disappearing with the 'honest' help, I don't need a theif with a convict 'journeyman theif' card.
 
electricguy61 said:
About criminal records: Many, if not most, charges are plea bargained down, meaning the actual crime can be much more serious then the actual plea/sentence.

About former jail/prison inmates: In 30+ years in the trade and as a minister, I have found that the vast majority are pathological liars. And I think of myself as someone who tries very hard to see the good side of everyone.

I tell my customers that I won't let anyone work in their home that I wouldn't have work around my wife and two daughters. And that cuts out most electricians that apply for work: no smokers (sorry smokers, but many are slobs), no drugs (including recreational/weekend pot users), no drunks (moderate drinking OK, first time come in to work stinking or hung over, you're gone), no recent (last 5 years) criminal record.

And Fulthrottle's point is excellent: what have they done to make restitution to their victims?
Click to expand...

I am sure most of us look to see the good side of everyone, and you view, "About criminal records: Many, if not most, charges are plea bargained down, meaning the actual crime can be much more serious then the actual plea/sentence." is what the bleeding heart group missed, the man that butchered my daughter, had serious problems, and many red flags, but as in most cases today they plea, and are out on the streets.
 
To err is human, to forgive divine. I'm not divine- nor have I any ambitions to be god.

Whatever happened to 'merit?' In my book, living 'right' is merit; having a prison record is not. Save the 'breaks' for the deserving first. In my book, going to prison ought not give you any advantage over those who didn't need reforming in the first place. Heaven knows, there are plenty of folks out there looking for work that have not screwed up to the extent that they had to go to prison to ammend for their transgressions.

Our world is screwy enough as it is. For example, I had the devils' own time for a while, finding employment .... for the simple reason that my precious employers either shut the plant down, or simply retired. Made it rather difficult to check references- which put me at a distinct disadvantage. Compare that situation to a convict's, who COULD 'document' where he had spent the past decade, and who had a Probation Officer to vouch for him. A pox on that inverted universe! Do I exaggerate? Not hardly- having had to go through years on the short end of that particular stick. Ditto for 'illegals,' who (naturally) had uncheckable backgrounds; to pry into their lies would be 'racist-' but to dissect mine is just 'prudent.'

Personally, life puts me in enough contact with criminals already. I'm not about to hire one to keep me company all day!
 
You guys should all step back and remember that the only difference between guilty and innocent is that one got caught.:roll:

There are a lot of bad people still walking around out there. Just because they don't have a record doesn't make them better than the ones that do.
 
The only difference?????

Maybe YOU have sold drugs, molested children, robbed banks, murdered your wife's boyfriend ... and just not been caught- but that's a pretty bold assertion you make regarding the rest of the audience.

One need not be either angel or devil; I daresay we are all sinners. Still, you need to draw the line somewhere. I'll trust the judgement of "12 men, tried and true" over any tale by the one who failed to persuade them of his innocence on as fair a forum as mankind has been able to devise.

On second thought ... maybe I'll take your advice, and look at the criminal record as a 'fail' on a basic intellegence test. Bias remains in favor of those without records.
 
Well like my grandfather used to say, "there are a lot of people that should just be shot, the thing is you need to make sure that you're on the commitee that decides who does and who doesn't.":happyyes:
 
I would go with option #3. Find someone completely different than the first two applicants. They screw up, they might destroy your lively hood.
 
In most cases we are small mom and pop operations and can not afford to take a chance on a bad hire, that said, we are also small, but I took a chance with a few new hires, that had some alcohol problems, and ended up with some criminal offenses, but on the hire interview, we discovered they were in lifetime recovery programs and never missed getting ongoing help, these are good people trying to get back on track, I thing this post should warn against hiring violent and sex offenders, not those that want to get back on track and are willing to work at it
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top