Harry Homeowner

[admiralporklung]

Alright... I've started an EC and I plan on doing small-ish commercial jobs as my bread and butter. Right now I am focusing on doing some residential service stuff to keep money comin' in. Anyhow, today I looked at a guys basement he wants to finish. He asked me to price a subpanel.

He doesn't need a subpanel. But he's ready to pay me to put it in. I have to tell him he doesn't need it right? I paid 50 US dollars for the lead from Service Magic. darn.

 

[augie47]

Rule 1: Customer wants a blue suit, turn on the blue light !

 

[ceb58]

Why doesn't he need a sub panel? Maybe he wants it for convenience. If he wants it give it, I mean sell him one.

 

[cadpoint]

Father - in - law - story

"What was the one thing about paint'n someone's house that you never asked", I asked?

"Why that Color?", he said ...

 

[kwired]

Tell him his sub panel needs to be 600 amps with main breaker:lol:

 

[Rick Christopherson]

If you want to build a reputation as a good EC, then ask the customer why he thinks he needs one, and if his reason doesn't make good sense, then inform him about it so he can make the decision from an educated standpoint. If the decision stands, then give him the price and do the work with a clear conscience. On the other hand, if your education causes you to lose the work, the good will you spread will likely come back to you later.

 

[K8MHZ]

He doesn't need a subpanel. But he's ready to pay me to put it in. I have to tell him he doesn't need it right?

Where were you when I bought my Harley and my Z-28?

I thought I needed them......



If you walked into a Harley dealership do you think anyone working there would tell you that you did not need a Harley?

Just inform the customer that the sub is not required by law, but you will gladly install one for him if he so desires and to it to Code .

The customer may want the sub just to organize the circuits in a particular way, or separate the breakers from the main for some reason.

If the reason is that Service Magic told the customer he needed the sub, then try to figure out why. Just because the sub may not be required by the NEC, it still may be a good idea.

Edit: On second thought, I don't know if you really even need to tell the customer that the law does not require the sub unless they tell you that they were told otherwise. It sounds like SM sold a job for you. Unless you think there were some shenanigans going on, why question the request at all? Just do it.

 

[Strife]

Swallow the 50 bucks, tell the owner the truth and see what comes up.
In the long run, it might pay off, or it might not.
Either case you did the right thing.
I have a property management customer, the said property has about 150 lights, every 6 months they ask me to go and fix all lights. No questions asked, I go check them, fix them, send invoice, paid. Couple times I had a light fixture where I replaced the ballast and the next visit the ballast went out again. I took it back to the supply house, got the ballast for free, ate my time and informed the customer that particular fixture's ballast's was under warranty, as I replaced it in the previous visit. The customer was blown away, more or less, picked up another customer through his referral, made up, much more than the time for those two ballasts.
I'm not saying that's always the case, but I believe they say around here :"what goes around, comes around"

Alright... I've started an EC and I plan on doing small-ish commercial jobs as my bread and butter. Right now I am focusing on doing some residential service stuff to keep money comin' in. Anyhow, today I looked at a guys basement he wants to finish. He asked me to price a subpanel.

He doesn't need a subpanel. But he's ready to pay me to put it in. I have to tell him he doesn't need it right? I paid 50 US dollars for the lead from Service Magic. darn.

 

[readydave8]

I've had a few that I looked at and told customer he didn't need something, thinking I was showing integrity. But some of these customers found someone else to do the job, this did not help either customer nor me.

So now I try to be a little more vague, still mention that he probably doesn't need it, then shut up about that & quote a price.

 

[growler]

Anyhow, today I looked at a guys basement he wants to finish. He asked me to price a subpanel.

He doesn't need a sub panel. But he's ready to pay me to put it in. I have to tell him he doesn't need it right? I paid 50 US dollars for the lead from Service Magic. darn.

I have put in several sub panels over the years for homeowners that wanted to finish their own basements to include the electrical.

The average HO feels more comfortable with a sub panel they can disconnect and work with cold while having power in the main panel.

If the job can be permitted as electrical only and the permit closed out before he starts to finish the basement under his own permit I see nothing wrong with installing a sub panel for this guy. You also get the service calls when he makes mistakes wireing the basement.

 

[iMuse97]

I've been on projects of 2M dollar homes that the customer didn't need. They already had one, but it didn't happen to be on a beach, so they wanted another.

Who knows? Maybe he's got plans for a welder or some grow lights and heat lamps or something.

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

I would never tell a customer he doesn't need a sub panel if he asks for one. Who knows what his future plans may be?

 

[hurk27]

I would never tell a customer he doesn't need a sub panel if he asks for one. Who knows what his future plans may be?

And I'll bet anything this is what the customer is thinking about, having a subpanel and not needing it, is better then needing a subpanel and not having it:slaphead:

 

[satcom]

And I'll bet anything this is what the customer is thinking about, having a subpanel and not needing it, is better then needing a subpanel and not having it:slaphead:

"It is better to have and not need, then to need and not have."

 

[Kdog76]

Put the sub-panel in. Unless you do not want the work - but do not NOT put the panel in because YOU think he does not need it. I love sub-panels much more then tandem breakers or running out of room in a panel. Remember back in the day they though a 60 amp service with four fuses and 1 220 volt pull-out block was adequate.

Plus when people sell you jobs they like to hear that you did the job, not that you talked the customer out of it. Selling jobs is not easy, and you don't want those that give you work to see you turn them down. Someone else WILL come along and do the job if they really want it done.

As a side note, I don't pay for referrals either, so if I did I'd like to recoup the $50.00 anyway. AND if you are just starting out in the business it's not a bad goal to try to keep working everyday.

 

[renosteinke]

The NEC is a minimum- not a be-all and end-all .... and the customer is alwayr sight. Seems pretty simple.

Yet, I doubt the request came out of thin air. It's time for a friendly discussion with the customer as to what he's really planning to do with that basement.

Maybe there's only innocence behind his request. After all, homes are typically built with the panels already stuffed with tandem breakers. Having a few extra spaces, or having the basement separated from the upper floors, is a real convenience. Say 'good customer' and offer the guy a treat.

Or, it's possible that he wants a serious workshop. Or to add six bedrooms. Or to add a hot tub and tanning salon. Does he need 150 amps and six circuits- or 60 amps and 30 circuits?

 

[kwired]

I would never tell a customer he doesn't need a sub panel if he asks for one. Who knows what his future plans may be?

Don't you need to know what kind of load you will potentially be feeding to know how large of a feeder the subpanel needs?

Most of the time in dwellings you can get away with installing 60 or 100 amp feeder, but what if his future plans include 20 Kw of electric heat?

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

Don't you need to know what kind of load you will potentially be feeding to know how large of a feeder the subpanel needs?

Most of the time in dwellings you can get away with installing 60 or 100 amp feeder, but what if his future plans include 20 Kw of electric heat?

It sounds good. But if a customer tell me he wants a 100a sub panel put in his basement with no other information or even with no circuits put it the panel I will still be happy to do it.

 

[Fulthrotl]

It sounds good. But if a customer tell me he wants a 100a sub panel put in his basement with no other information or even with no circuits put it the panel I will still be happy to do it.

i went on a service call tues at noon, to disconnect two phone jacks so that the wall could be patched for painting.......

in the harbor, on the water, a 2,500 sq. ft. condo.... and i've been there since, doing whatever i was asked to do,
as long as it was legal, moral, and not fattening....

owner just bought the place..... i took a BUNCH of photos..... when asked about getting some light to turn on,
everything in the house is on a dimming panel, which the new owner didn't know..... we went looking for it,
finally found it in a finished loft above the garage.

the largest vantage board made, with three expansion racks.. whole thing is 3' high by 9' long or thereabouts,
on unistrut, with a sub panel feeding it.... total cost on the electrical when this place was done in the late 80's
was above $150k.

after explaining that the commissioning of this thing with 400 channels would cost over $20k, and that it was
critical that she have a backup of the lighting program, next weeks' plan is to get software, and a dedicated
laptop, and back the thing up, then start seeing about modifying it to make it less disneylandy.....

so when someone asks for my help, i'm willing to give it..... when i'm done here, if you don't want that
subpanel job, i'll give you $50 for it.....

 

[GUNNING]

Customer is always right.

Customer is always right.

Step one, modify business plan to "customer is always right."

Advise customer of another option then put in sub panel and up sell doing the lights and receptacles in the basement. .

Refer to step one when confused about scope of work.

As for SM.... that relationship will be a business decision based on dollars and sense.

Remember if you are buying water melons for a dollar a piece and selling them for 99 cents each the solution to your problem is not to buy a bigger truck and make it up on volume. If you have paid for the lead, you are already into the work and need to close the deal or else delegate sales to someone else that can.

Repeat after me while nodding head up and down, "sub panel in basement, ok." Keep in mind also that if you start bringing down several circuits to the basement the labor involved would be about the same as a subpanel install. Sometimes the customer has thought about the problem a lot longer than you have and has a grasp on what they want the final product to be. :thumbsup: