another COSTCO GEN SET Q

[hurk27]

I was thinking about $800 for doing this (an hour out of town, but now i am more inclined to equate this with my charge for a panel change: $1600) i did a sub panel with a manual interlock (sweet cover came with it for real cheap) at $800 and i felt like i almost did it for free. it had a gen/recept under it too. This is a propane unit and needs to have conduit run to it outside the house. i think 1600 is about spot on. if that's not a contradiction.

I have found that many times transferring a whole house can be less labor then when doing the sub panel route, pulling the circuits out of the main panel and re-routing them into a sub panel can be a pain, so many times I find I can talk the home owners into a whole house system because the labor price can be that close that it will offset the cost of the larger generator and service rated ATS, especially when they have a outside disconnect that I can remove and install the ATS in place of it, but I don't do plumbing nor am I insured for it, so I always put it in the bid to be done by others, also when getting into 20kw generators and above watch out for the gas supply availability as some utility's will charge for up sizing the gas regulator and meter if more volume is needed, this is a big mistake that can cause warranty problems if the generator is underfed with fuel or the wrong size gas lines are run to it.

 

[bullheimer]

thank you for that. in this case as in about 90% of my gen calls, the customer already has their generator sitting there. :weeping:

oh yeah just want to add this also, the power company does not want a generator set right underneath their meter. this was where i was going to put it. i guess the reasoning is obvious. i don't include gas lines in my bids because in WA you have to be licensed by the state to do it. i don't have a pipe threader. if i got more calls i might want to get one. but right now i want to be a licensed generac dealer, but the only call i got to sell a generator is to sell a kholer, so i have to find one now. one has to buy a generac genset outright to become a dealer!!! so i am still working on that 100% deposit customer. it aint gonna be easy either. anyway.....

just want to say, that i wish i had half of your knowledge of gensets Huck. i'm still in the dark in oh so much.

 

[hurk27]

thank you for that. in this case as in about 90% of my gen calls, the customer already has their generator sitting there. :weeping:

oh yeah just want to add this also, the power company does not want a generator set right underneath their meter. this was where i was going to put it. i guess the reasoning is obvious. i don't include gas lines in my bids because in WA you have to be licensed by the state to do it. i don't have a pipe threader. if i got more calls i might want to get one. but right now i want to be a licensed generac dealer, but the only call i got to sell a generator is to sell a kholer, so i have to find one now. one has to buy a generac genset outright to become a dealer!!! so i am still working on that 100% deposit customer. it aint gonna be easy either. anyway.....

just want to say, that i wish i had half of your knowledge of gensets Huck. i'm still in the dark in oh so much.

Generac has really made me turn away from them when they started pushing this "having to be a dealer" thing, back when they would sell me parts and give me tech support to help me save my customers I installed many of their units and provided service for them when it did fail to start, I hammered them to get rid of their trickle chargers to instead use float type charges when it was causing many battery failures, another problem was the ATS coils that pull the transfer switch were flammable and there was nothing to de energize them if they failed to fully move the switch into the other position and would over heat and catch fire, from this they put a thermo fuse in the windings of the coils, then after a lull in generator installs they totally changed to this new series of generators that now you have to call in to get a code before you can even run the generator, while this made sense to me to make sure the warranty info was registered, but they also stopped all tech support and parts purchases unless you become a dealer or service center which required you to buy stock into parts that you might never use, dealers had to spend several thousands to have on hand a few of their models and ATS's this kind of running a business just strikes me as greedy and while if a customer wants me to install one I will but I put it right in my contract that they will have to seek all service through Generac, While you don't have to be a dealer to purchase them as they can be purchased at almost any of the big box stores and many electrical supply houses, because of the way they want you to be a dealer or service tech and buy into so much product before you can get tech support they can keep them.

Over the years I have had some run in's with their techs, like the one time a plumber undersized the gas line to a 10kw unit, there so called tech they sent out immediately went right to a sub panel it fed and added up the breaker handles and told the customer we over loaded the generator because we had 80 amps of breakers in this sub panel, the customer call me and I drove out there and ripped this guy a new one, and showed him the calculated load which was less then 35 amps, and after I tested the generator, I pointed out it was underfed by the plumber he got out his fancy gage's and confirmed this but still tried to say it was being over loaded, it took me calling one of their engineers that also talked to him to get him to back off, that was just one of a few, couple times their tech charged my customer for things that were clearly under warranty and I had to fight with Generac to get a refund for them, other times it was the bad mouthing that these techs would do to try to make them sound smart when they couldn't find the problem it was the installers fault:rant:

All I can say is while this might work for some people to go through this, not me:happysad:

 

[hillbilly1]

Lets reword every thing. If you have a 200amp service, and you want to keep the 200amp service, the ATS must be rated at 200amps.
Never had a call to down size a service :roll:

We have, the engineer downsized the service on a number of big box stores from 2000 amps to 1200 amps to allow a smaller service rated transfer switch and generator to be used. We installed around 50 of these in one year, and the customer is continuing to install them with no issues what so ever. Just because you have never done it, does not mean it cannot be done, and sure if you want to keep the 200 amp service, you would have to use a 200 amp transfer switch. That is not what is being debated.

 

[bullheimer]

no, we are keeping the 200A main and using the 100A to just feed the sub,. i thought i said that.

anyway as far as the generac thing. i didnt get alot of costs involved with being a dealer, just buying the first one outright.

but being a service tech for them was waaaaay out of bounds. they wanted alot like you said in parts stock, but the big thing i caught was the prices for taking their classes and getting certified by them. i don't got that kind of scratch. thanks all

 

[hillbilly1]

no, we are keeping the 200A main and using the 100A to just feed the sub,. i thought i said that.

anyway as far as the generac thing. i didnt get alot of costs involved with being a dealer, just buying the first one outright.

but being a service tech for them was waaaaay out of bounds. they wanted alot like you said in parts stock, but the big thing i caught was the prices for taking their classes and getting certified by them. i don't got that kind of scratch. thanks all

okay so i don't know. i have read that i can use a 100A ATS (honeywell made by generac, comes from costco with a generac/honeywell gen and a 100A ats but NO Control panel) as long as i do service calcs and 100A will cover it.

ie, i can use this 100A ATS on a 200A panel. right? according to the wiring diagram, the ATS is in front of and in series with the main panel. the ATS has a 100A breaker that will NOT accept 4/0 AL. so that is my problem. the ATS says Service Rated all over it, which is required, but i don't see how in hell this is going to work. customer doesnt want to run whole house but dont see anything limiting that (he just wants to run a feezer, non elec, furnace, and lights)

here are the ats specs: http://www.honeywellstore.com/store...lt-sync-transfer-switch-non-service-rated.htm


wiring diagram (from what i remember from this morning, soooo very long ago) looks just like this one, here: on page 8: http://www.guardiangenerators.com/PublicPDFs/0E9905.pdf

i just think that if an ATS is in between the meter and the main panel then it also has to be a:rated at 200A and b: wired with 4/0. or am i seeing a parallel set of conductors coming out of the bottom of the meter. if so, does the meter have to have lugs for two wires? i thin so.

i have searched this, after about ten threads i'm done. thx. sb

This is where you confused everybody!

 

[bradleyelectric]

okay so i don't know. i have read that i can use a 100A ATS (honeywell made by generac, comes from costco with a generac/honeywell gen and a 100A ats but NO Control panel) as long as i do service calcs and 100A will cover it.

ie, i can use this 100A ATS on a 200A panel. right? according to the wiring diagram, the ATS is in front of and in series with the main panel. the ATS has a 100A breaker that will NOT accept 4/0 AL. so that is my problem. the ATS says Service Rated all over it, which is required, but i don't see how in hell this is going to work. customer doesnt want to run whole house but dont see anything limiting that (he just wants to run a feezer, non elec, furnace, and lights)

If the customer doesn't want to run the whole house just a limited load then feed the ATS from a breaker out of the service panel not directly from the meter. This will save from having to redo bonding and suit the customers needs. Just because an item is service rated doesn't mean you have to use it as the service.