Where am I going wrong?

[Strife]

Had a "friend" asking me to give him a quote for a new house.
Bellow is a summary list of costs(QTY, name, price per, labor per). Material includes everything(can, trim lamp, box, rommex, etc). The only thing I don't have there is the ceiling fans themself(installation is included). Labor includes everything, cleaning, trenching, etc. Service is 400A and meter is about 150' from POCO (parallel 3/0). Panel A is 400A about 100' from main, chuckfull of AFCI's. Miscellaneous is high on material cause I put the trenching there.

35 WP Single Receptacle $25.00 1.0
3 Water Heaters $45.00 2.5
10 20A Dedicated receptacles $20.17 1.0
11 Light Vanity $26.33 0.7
1 SW WP SP Decora $12.50 0.7
43 SP SW Decora $9.50 0.5
2 Oven Outlets $180.00 3.0
1 REC Dryer $55.00 2.0
11 SP SW Dimmer $20.75 0.7
8 SW 3Way Decora $17.50 1.1
11 Light 4' Strip $31.33 0.9
51 REC 15A Duplex Decora $9.50 0.6
51 REC 15A Duplex Decora SPLIT $12.82 0.7
9 Light Security $38.33 1.3
11 Fire Smoke Detectors $35.00 1.3
6 Light Recessed Vapor Proof $27.04 1.1
68 Light Recessed rooms $27.04 1.1
7 JB Ceiling fan $12.66 0.7
8 Light Sconce Interior $30.29 0.9
4 Light Hallways Ceiling $23.29 0.9
11 REC GFI Small APPL $31.46 0.9
13 REC 15A GFI $20.59 0.6
8 Light Recessed Exterior $31.16 1.2
2 Ceiling Fan Exterior $12.66 1.7
7 Light EXH/Light Combo $38.00 0.7
9 Lights EXT Coach Lights $55.33 1.6
4 Light Small Closet $23.29 0.9
5 Ceiling Fan Interior $12.66 1.7
2 Ceiling Fan Garage $12.66 1.7
1 EQ AHU3 50A $250.00 5.0
1 EQ AHU2 50A $140.00 4.0
1 EQ AHU1 50A $114.35 3.0
3 EQ ACU Units $80.00 4.5
1 EQ Irrigation Pump $120.00 3.0
1 SWGR FPL Service $3,817.50 40.0
1 SWGR PNLA $2,765.00 20.0
1 SWGR PNLB $908.57 12.0
1 Miscellaneous $1,200.00 16.0

So extending all this, it came to 19K materials and 480 hrs labor. With labor at 32.5/hr, 15% OH and profit, and permits and inspections, total came to 42K.
Now.... I understand I can probably tweak a few things here and there, but my "friend" tells me he got a price for 18K.
Yeah, the place has SIX bathrooms, and 2 kitchens. And the CU's include the thermostat wire.
No tweaking in the world could get me even close there, so what am I doing wrong?

 

[jumper]

so what am I doing wrong?

Asking a bunch of strangers on an internet forum to help you with pricing.

I am not saying this to be unkind, but bids can vary for many reasons.

 

[CopperTone]

Had a "friend" asking me to give him a quote for a new house.
Bellow is a summary list of costs(QTY, name, price per, labor per). Material includes everything(can, trim lamp, box, rommex, etc). The only thing I don't have there is the ceiling fans themself(installation is included). Labor includes everything, cleaning, trenching, etc. Service is 400A and meter is about 150' from POCO (parallel 3/0). Panel A is 400A about 100' from main, chuckfull of AFCI's. Miscellaneous is high on material cause I put the trenching there.

35 WP Single Receptacle $25.00 1.0
3 Water Heaters $45.00 2.5
10 20A Dedicated receptacles $20.17 1.0
11 Light Vanity $26.33 0.7
1 SW WP SP Decora $12.50 0.7
43 SP SW Decora $9.50 0.5
2 Oven Outlets $180.00 3.0
1 REC Dryer $55.00 2.0
11 SP SW Dimmer $20.75 0.7
8 SW 3Way Decora $17.50 1.1
11 Light 4' Strip $31.33 0.9
51 REC 15A Duplex Decora $9.50 0.6
51 REC 15A Duplex Decora SPLIT $12.82 0.7
9 Light Security $38.33 1.3
11 Fire Smoke Detectors $35.00 1.3
6 Light Recessed Vapor Proof $27.04 1.1
68 Light Recessed rooms $27.04 1.1
7 JB Ceiling fan $12.66 0.7
8 Light Sconce Interior $30.29 0.9
4 Light Hallways Ceiling $23.29 0.9
11 REC GFI Small APPL $31.46 0.9
13 REC 15A GFI $20.59 0.6
8 Light Recessed Exterior $31.16 1.2
2 Ceiling Fan Exterior $12.66 1.7
7 Light EXH/Light Combo $38.00 0.7
9 Lights EXT Coach Lights $55.33 1.6
4 Light Small Closet $23.29 0.9
5 Ceiling Fan Interior $12.66 1.7
2 Ceiling Fan Garage $12.66 1.7
1 EQ AHU3 50A $250.00 5.0
1 EQ AHU2 50A $140.00 4.0
1 EQ AHU1 50A $114.35 3.0
3 EQ ACU Units $80.00 4.5
1 EQ Irrigation Pump $120.00 3.0
1 SWGR FPL Service $3,817.50 40.0
1 SWGR PNLA $2,765.00 20.0
1 SWGR PNLB $908.57 12.0
1 Miscellaneous $1,200.00 16.0

So extending all this, it came to 19K materials and 480 hrs labor. With labor at 32.5/hr, 15% OH and profit, and permits and inspections, total came to 42K.
Now.... I understand I can probably tweak a few things here and there, but my "friend" tells me he got a price for 18K.
Yeah, the place has SIX bathrooms, and 2 kitchens. And the CU's include the thermostat wire.
No tweaking in the world could get me even close there, so what am I doing wrong?

Where you are going wrong is second guessing yourself. You should be glad that you aren't the sucker doing it for 18k when you know it should be double or more.
Be happy and laugh at the other guy. we are finishing a 6k sq ft house now it was over 55k for the electrical - Maybe you know what you are doing and the other guy doesn't .
Move on and laugh - or cry that some sap is working for free.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

Might be able to bring your labor down a tad

 

[ceb58]

Might be able to bring your labor down a tad

Your boss called and said he was droping his rates to help out. OH, by the way you will be getting a pay cut.

 

[cadpoint]

What else are friends for. It's business I would't worry about it.

My only hope is that you didn't send that exact break down to the client...

I won't call your frined, I won't be a friend till they invite you over for the house opening party.

Good Luck on the next one.

 

[GUNNING]

options

options

Talk value not cost. Tell the customer you will be available to finish the job for time and material at double the current hourly rate and double materials. Tell him the numbers just don't add up for the bid he mentioned. You might be talking apples and oranges. You might be negotiating and not know it. Don't assume the customer is being truthful or knows what the other bid was for. Might not include the service or materials or labor.

Stand your ground and keep the lines of communication open. Be confident in your numbers.

 

[jumper]

Might be able to bring your labor down a tad

Your boss called and said he was droping his rates to help out. OH, by the way you will be getting a pay cut.

horsegoer, you just walked straight into that one.

 

[cadpoint]

Well you could be his friend and ask to see what the other EC dude qualified... as Gunning stated, ask him if all the other various trades gave such a radical difference in prices, then the conversation is mute. ~

 

[iMuse97]

Might be able to bring your labor down a tad

???? That's not what this forum is trying to encourage!

 

[Hv&Lv]

I think where you are going wrong is believing the "friend". Sounds like he is bid shopping. Like others have stated, stick to your guns, unless you are really in need of the work, then "tweak". Even then, you can't be expected to give stuff away. At 18K, it sounds like the other guy is going to buy and donate alot of the materials and labor...

 

[satcom]

The guys that try to low ball ligit bids usually are the same guys that don't pay the supply house bills, have lapsed or no insurance coverages, and rarely complete jobs, they are always one step ahead of the bill collectors, they are not someone you compete with, they are the guys that make work for everyone else picking up the half finished projects from guys that din't know their real costs or how to estimate.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Had a "friend" asking me to give him a quote for a new house.

No tweaking in the world could get me even close there, so what am I doing wrong?

see the first line in the post.

last house i bid, i ran the numbers, and tossed them up here for "peer group ridicule"
the consensus here was i was a smidge low, but ok.

the guy who got it, his price installed was less than my material bill.
and i get pretty good material pricing.

the house is done now, has been for a while. lights go on, hasn't burnt
down, etc.

how'd he do it? short of stealing the material, i don't know.
maybe he did it for free. maybe someone else finished it.

i've got a compliance depot application to fill out.... then bed.
new commercial customer, owns 110 separate structures in
this county. pays their bills on time. ethical. would like to be
the guy they call all the time. will take steps to facilitate that.

god save me from the insanity of bidding residential.

 

[T.M.Haja Sahib]

So extending all this, it came to 19K materials and 480 hrs labor. With labor at 32.5/hr, 15% OH and profit, and permits and inspections, total came to 42K.

Out of curiosity,the following questions:
1)For materials price,any trade discount can be taken into account?
2)For labor cost,any methods of motion and time study can be employed to reduce it,provided such methods are in practice?

 

[cdslotz]

Is 19K on materials your COST?
Is 32.50 on labor your COST?

I only do commercial, but our AVERAGE shop rate is 19.50 plus burden/OH&P.
If you have 4 men working on that job, what would the average rate COST be for those 4 men?

 

[growler]

Had a "friend" asking me to give him a quote for a new house.
Bellow is a summary list of costs(QTY, name, price per, labor per). Material includes everything(can, trim lamp, box, rommex, etc). The only thing I don't have there is the ceiling fans themself(installation is included). Labor includes everything, cleaning, trenching, etc. Service is 400A and meter is about 150' from POCO (parallel 3/0). Panel A is 400A about 100' from main, chuckfull of AFCI's. Miscellaneous is high on material cause I put the trenching

Was there a set of prints and a detailed scope of work so that everyone was bidding the same job.?

If this guy is a "friend" ask him to let you see the other bids. You are no longer in the running to get the job so there is nothing unethical about doing some comparisons. See what's included in the bid given.

 

[ksmith846]

Even using your takeoff totals and material pricing we would be about $7K less than your bid.

Only because we are $17.50 shop average + 40% burden + 25% overhead x 480 hours = $14,700 + $19,000 materials = $33,700 plus 10% profit on all = $37,070.....I do not put overhead on my materials these days, I cover it in the labor markup instead.

I agree the other price seems extremely low....maybe they have materials stored up from other projects that fell through?

Point is that they were cheaper and you have to move on.

 

[sameguy]

Your price is your price, looks ok. I was high on 50 house bid last month now I understand the guy who got it is falling behind. I will be calling him to see if I can suck up the rest of the work; my price?
He has it from last month, will I drop my price? I will go see what the other guy was doing then see, could go up!
Talk to your buddy or move on, just make sure he is getting all the 3way/4ways, service size, space, etc. that you had.

 

[petersonra]

Every now and then we lose a job to someone who bid a price we could not match. It just happens sometimes.

It would not surpise me one bit that someone who is very good at this kind of work knows just how and what corners there are to cut to get his price down.

IMO, most people who think they are getting a good deal on materials aren't. I would not be at all surprised if the other guy is paying half what you are. There is that much variability in pricing of this kind of materials (not wire and pipe as much though).

I just ordered some TC. Not a bunch of it. A mixture of #16 37C and #14 25C. I think it was a total of 1500 feet or so. For something I got a quote from our normal supplier at what I thought was a good price. Our buyer checked another supplier and found it for $1000 less for the lot. Same exact PNs. The phone call was worth $1000. Not at all uncommon if you have a lot of experience knowing where to look for the bargains (or just get lucky). Sometimes it is just about making the call.

 

[cdslotz]

Even using your takeoff totals and material pricing we would be about $7K less than your bid.

Only because we are $17.50 shop average + 40% burden + 25% overhead x 480 hours = $14,700 + $19,000 materials = $33,700 plus 10% profit on all = $37,070.....I do not put overhead on my materials these days, I cover it in the labor markup instead.

I agree the other price seems extremely low....maybe they have materials stored up from other projects that fell through?

Point is that they were cheaper and you have to move on.

That is about where I would be too. I only use 15% for OH, but since you didn't apply it to materials, we would come out about the same.