bonding hot,cold water with gas

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badashuka

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I have recently been told that when I bond the hot and cold water and gas at the water heater that this now has to be done with a continuous GEC from the ground rod with the service. This is the first I have heard of this and do not see the change in the 2011 NEC book. As far as I know the main panel,ground rod, and water main are bonded together continuously, and then on the interior at the hot water heater it is the gas with hot,and cold water pipes. please help me with my ignorance with residential installations
 
badashuka said:
I have recently been told that when I bond the hot and cold water and gas at the water heater that this now has to be done with a continuous GEC from the ground rod with the service. This is the first I have heard of this and do not see the change in the 2011 NEC book. As far as I know the main panel,ground rod, and water main are bonded together continuously, and then on the interior at the hot water heater it is the gas with hot,and cold water pipes. please help me with my ignorance with residential installations
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See 250.104(A) & (B) - these are the sections dealing with interior metal water pipe bonding....and also the bonding of 'other' metal piping.

Interior metal water piping does need to be bonded back to the service IF there is not already a metal water pipe grounding electrode installed [as when there is PVC pipe to the building, but metal water piping on the interior].

Be sure to read all of (B) - with new construction there is seldom a need to bond the interior metal water piping & gas at the water heater.
 
Thank you, that was the article I was reading but I was being told differently by someone with more residential experience. This site is one of my most valuable tools as an electrician, thank you very much.
 
badashuka said:
I have recently been told that when I bond the hot and cold water and gas at the water heater that this now has to be done with a continuous GEC from the ground rod with the service. This is the first I have heard of this and do not see the change in the 2011 NEC book. As far as I know the main panel,ground rod, and water main are bonded together continuously, and then on the interior at the hot water heater it is the gas with hot,and cold water pipes. please help me with my ignorance with residential installations
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I don't know who is telling you this but it's not correct according to the NEC. Unless the gas pipe is the corrugated type is it permitted to be bonded by the EGC of the circuit feeding a gas appliance.
 
If there is CSST piping this from the 2009 IRC may apply.

SECTION G2411 (310) ELECTRICAL BONDING

G2411.1 (310.1) Pipe and tubing other than CSST. Each above-ground portion of a gas piping system other than corrugated stainless steel tubing (CSST), that is likely to become energized shall be electrically continuous and bonded to an effective ground-fault current path. Gas piping, other than CSST, shall be considered to be bonded where it is connected to appliances that are connected to the equipment grounding conductor of the circuit supplying that appliance.

G2411.1.1 (310.1.1) CSST. Corrugated stainless steel tubing (CSST) gas piping systems shall be bonded to the electrical service grounding electrode system at the point where the gas service enters the building. The bonding jumper shall be not smaller than 6 AWG copper wire or equivalent.

It's worth noting that NEC did not adopt a similar change for a lack of evidence that it would have any positive effect.
 
badashuka said:
I have recently been told that when I bond the hot and cold water and gas at the water heater that this now has to be done with a continuous GEC from the ground rod with the service. This is the first I have heard of this and do not see the change in the 2011 NEC book. As far as I know the main panel,ground rod, and water main are bonded together continuously, and then on the interior at the hot water heater it is the gas with hot,and cold water pipes. please help me with my ignorance with residential installations
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If it's CSST, it's a whole different animal. You have to follow the manufactures rec. and there are three or four different manufactures with different specs.:slaphead:
 
RICK NAPIER said:
G2411.1.1 (310.1.1) CSST. Corrugated stainless steel tubing (CSST) gas piping systems shall be bonded to the electrical service grounding electrode system at the point where the gas service enters the building. The bonding jumper shall be not smaller than 6 AWG copper wire or equivalent.
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Ok I will ask what needs to be done if you have black iron where the gas enters the house, but have CSST off a manifold to each appliance?
 
The language in the IRC is lifted right out of the NEC. 250.104(B) says "...that is likely to become energized...shall be bonded...". It also states that the egc for the circuit that is likely to energize the pipe may serve as the bonding means. So where would gas pipe be likely energized? Ranges, FAU's, Dryers...all of which provide bonding via the equipment grounds of the circuits which feed them.

Take a look at the NEC Handbook for 250.104(B) "...Typically the use of an additional bonding jumper is not necessary to comply with this requirement, because the equipment grounding connection to the non-current carrying metal parts of the appliance also provides a bonding connection to the metal piping attached to the appliance."

Why then would anyone REQUIRE the gas pipe system be bonded where it enters the building? It may be a good idea, see FPN for this article, but it's not a code requirement.

my 2cents
 
As many have pointed out about the gas and the point of attachment for the bonding jumper I will address the bonding of the hot to the cold water at the water heater.

If one is under the impression that the hot and cold pipes constitute two separate piping systems then a bond from one system to the other system at the water heater would be a code violation.
Read carefully 250.104(A)(1).
Which one is being bonded to the other? It wouldn?t much matter as whichever is being bonded this bond conductor must be bonded to one of the following;
  • service equipment enclosure
  • the grounded conductor at the service
  • the grounding electrode conductor where of sufficient size
  • one or more grounding electrodes used
If the idea is that the cold is one system then that system must have a bonding jumper installed from an assessable point back to one of the items outlined above.
If the idea is that the hot is one system then that system must have a bonding jumper installed from an assessable point back to one of the items outlined above.

Neither the hot nor the cold water pipe at the water heater would fulfill one of the requirements outlined above unless the water heater is installed within 5 feet of where the cold water enters the building. So unless the heater is at the point of entry then the bonding across the water heater is not compliant and would serve no purpose at all as only the first five feet of water pipe that enters the building can be used to attach a bonding jumper to.
 
Why would a bond need to be installed within 5' of the water line entering the building? We are not dealing with 250.52 or 250.64. The bond could be run back to the panel or tapped to the GEC running to the water line. Art. 250.104(A)(1) that you reference sends you to 250.64 and talks about conductor material, protection from damage and enclosures for GECs.
 
jimport said:
Why would a bond need to be installed within 5' of the water line entering the building? We are not dealing with 250.52 or 250.64. The bond could be run back to the panel or tapped to the GEC running to the water line. Art. 250.104(A)(1) that you reference sends you to 250.64 and talks about conductor material, protection from damage and enclosures for GECs.
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What are you reading?
(1) General. Metal water piping system(s) installed in or attached to a building or structure shall be bonded to the service equipment enclosure, the grounded conductor at the service, the grounding electrode conductor where of sufficient size, or to the one or more grounding electrodes used. The bonding jumper(s) shall be sized in accordance with Table 250.66 except as permitted in 250.104(A)(2) and (A)(3).

To bond the hot to the cold could be done to the first five feet as the rest of the cold water line is not one of the items outlined in the above section
 
(1) Continuity. Continuity of the grounding path or the
bonding connection to interior piping shall not rely on water
meters or filtering devices and similar equipment.

The above verbiage is from 250.53(D).

You brought up an interesting thought to me. If the water meter were located beyond 5' from the water line entrance to the house it would appear that 250.104(A)(1) would require a bonding jumper from the customer side of the meter back to one of the options outlined in 250.104(A).

I'm not sure that I have ever seen where the water meter has been located as such but if it were a short bonding jumper located just around the meter would not be code compliant.

Pete
 
jimport said:
Only the GEC connection to the water line needs to be made within 5'. There are other locations that are acceptable for the bond location.
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Yes. But there are two ends to a bonding jumper. The cold piping beyond 5' does not qualify as a GE/GEC. If you consider cold and hot as two systems, jumping cold to hot at the water heater does not meet the requirement for one end of the jumper.
 
jimport said:
Only the GEC connection to the water line needs to be made within 5'. There are other locations that are acceptable for the bond location.
Click to expand...

You are correct. In the instance that the supply line to the house is non-metallic or if the continuity of the metallic water line were broken a bonding jumper could be attached to the water line at any point but the bonding jumper would have then to terminate at one of the locations outlined in 250.104(A).

Pete
 
Smart $ said:
Yes. But there are two ends to a bonding jumper. The cold piping beyond 5' does not qualify as a GE/GEC. If you consider cold and hot as two systems, jumping cold to hot at the water heater does not meet the requirement for one end of the jumper.
Click to expand...

I was too slow.. :)

Pete
 
In over twenty plus years in several jurisdictions not one inspector has ever taken the stand that the bond needs to be within 5' of where the water line enters the building. I don't see potable water in a house as two systems either.
 
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