Min. Clear Space in front of J-Box

[maghazadeh]

THere are many discussions here in this forum and elsewhere regarding working space for sevice, panels, disconnect safety sw, and etc. But I cann't ever find any information for what would be a required working space in front of J boxes. It does not matter how many times you call for meeting with other trades to coordinate / designate the spaces above ceiling (let's say above suspended ceiling) for different trades, still you will find that mech. contractor installing air duct right front of J boxes within inches and blocking the access. So making it short what is a minimum space required in front of J box. 6", 12", 18", ......?
If I don't find a code referencing this, then I can not argue to have them remove their work.
Thank you for your reply.

 

[iwire]

This is as close as you will get. Notice no distances are given, it does not require it be easy or enjoyable to access, only possible to access.

314.29 Boxes, Conduit Bodies, and Handhole Enclosures
to Be Accessible. Boxes, conduit bodies, and handhole
enclosures shall be installed so that the wiring contained
in them can be rendered accessible without removing
any part of the building or, in underground circuits, without
excavating sidewalks, paving, earth, or other substance that
is to be used to establish the finished grade.

Exception: Listed boxes and handhole enclosures shall be
permitted where covered by gravel, light aggregate, or noncohesive
granulated soil if their location is effectively identified
and accessible for excavation.

Accessible (as applied to wiring methods). Capable of
being removed or exposed without damaging the building
structure or finish or not permanently closed in by the structure
or finish of the building.

 

[Smart $]

This is as close as you will get. Notice no distances are given, it does not require it be easy or enjoyable to access, only possible to access.

314.29 Boxes, Conduit Bodies, and Handhole Enclosures
to Be Accessible. Boxes, conduit bodies, and handhole
enclosures shall be installed so that the wiring contained
in them can be rendered accessible without removing
any part of the building or, in underground circuits, without
excavating sidewalks, paving, earth, or other substance that
is to be used to establish the finished grade.

An enigma in itself. In instances where electrical equipment stands alone, we consider it a structure. When electrical equipment is installed in a building [structure], covers for such are part of the building!!!

 

[iwire]

An enigma in itself. In instances where electrical equipment stands alone, we consider it a structure. When electrical equipment is installed in a building [structure], covers for such are part of the building!!!

Shut up trouble maker.

 

[maghazadeh]

Iwire and Smart $,
Thank you both for quick reply.
As you may know J boxes behind the built in ovens supplying power are not allowed. Reason being is you have to take applaince out to access the J box. I don't know for sure that's ture for a receptacle behind refrig, but I have heard inspectors not allowing that either. The same for dish washers. How do they expect you to take a 24" x 24" hard duct out of way to access the J box in the ceiling.
Why is it that this has not been addressed through code making panel?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Iwire and Smart $,
As you may know J boxes behind the built in ovens supplying power are not allowed. Reason being is you have to take applaince out to access the J box. I don't know for sure that's ture for a receptacle behind refrig, but I have heard inspectors not allowing that either. The same for dish washers. How do they expect you to take a 24" x 24" hard duct out of way to access the J box in the ceiling.
Why is it that this has not been addressed through code making panel?

I disagree. You can put a receptacle behind a range and access it by removing the range. The code says accessible not readily accessible.

 

[ActionDave]

I agree with Dennis. You can put a j-box behind a range or a fridge.

 

[Smart $]

Iwire and Smart $,
Thank you both for quick reply.
As you may know J boxes behind the built in ovens supplying power are not allowed. Reason being is you have to take applaince out to access the J box. I don't know for sure that's ture for a receptacle behind refrig, but I have heard inspectors not allowing that either. The same for dish washers. How do they expect you to take a 24" x 24" hard duct out of way to access the J box in the ceiling.
Why is it that this has not been addressed through code making panel?

I disagree. You can put a receptacle behind a range and access it by removing the range. The code says accessible not readily accessible.

I agree with Dennis. You can put a j-box behind a range or a fridge.

maghazadeh cited built-in ovens and dishwashers. Ranges and refridgerators are typically not built in or fixed in place.

 

[Smart $]

Shut up trouble maker.

:happysad::happysad::happysad:

 

[iwire]

maghazadeh cited built-in ovens and dishwashers. Ranges and refridgerators are typically not built in or fixed in place.

I don't see that it makes a difference.

In either case they are not part of the building in my opinion.

 

[maghazadeh]

maghazadeh cited built-in ovens and dishwashers. Ranges and refridgerators are typically not built in or fixed in place.

exactly, Thanks Smat $.

 

[iwire]

Why is it that this has not been addressed through code making panel?

I think the answer can be found here.

90.1 Purpose.

(A) Practical Safeguarding. The purpose of this Code is
the practical safeguarding of persons and property from
hazards arising from the use of electricity.

(B) Adequacy. This Code contains provisions that are considered
necessary for safety. Compliance therewith and
proper maintenance results in an installation that is essentially
free from hazard but not necessarily efficient, convenient,
or adequate for good service or future expansion of
electrical use.

(C) Intention. This Code is not intended as a design specification
or an instruction manual for untrained persons.

 

[Ponchik]

Iwire and Smart $,
Thank you both for quick reply.
As you may know J boxes behind the built in ovens supplying power are not allowed. Reason being is you have to take applaince out to access the J box. I don't know for sure that's ture for a receptacle behind refrig, but I have heard inspectors not allowing that either. The same for dish washers. How do they expect you to take a 24" x 24" hard duct out of way to access the J box in the ceiling.
Why is it that this has not been addressed through code making panel?

Maghazadeh,

i am also from south bay, which city's inspectors are not allowing this? have you asked them for a code reference?

Depending on the appliance and its location you may not have a whip or a cord long enough to reach outside of the appliance cabinet or space.

 

[Smart $]

I don't see that it makes a difference.

In either case they are not part of the building in my opinion.

I agree. Just helping to make the distinction.

Nevertheless, some inspectors apparently think otherwise.

 

[maghazadeh]

Maghazadeh,

i am also from south bay, which city's inspectors are not allowing this? have you asked them for a code reference?

Depending on the appliance and its location you may not have a whip or a cord long enough to reach outside of the appliance cabinet or space.

Edward,
It's good to know you are from nearby (south bay), unfortunately I can not tell which City since I don't do residential. I have EC friends who told me that. My guess is San Jose, Menlo Park, or Hayward.
By the way, thanks for your reply.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Equipment. A general term, including material, fittings, devices, appliances, luminaires, apparatus, machinery, and the like used as a part of, or in connection with, an electrical installation.

A junction box is "equipment" per the NEC.

110.26 Spaces About Electrical Equipment.
Sufficient access and working space shall be provided and maintained about all electrical equipment to permit ready and safe operation and maintenance of such equipment.

This rule applies, but is very subjective.

(A) Working Space. Working space for equipment operating at 600 volts, nominal, or less to ground and likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized shall comply with the dimensions of 110.26(A)(1), (A)(2), and (A)(3) or as required or permitted elsewhere in this Code.

This rule also applies and is not subjective.

Is that the intent of the code? I don't really think so, but until CMP 1 accepts reasonable proposals on the application of 110.26(A), I am going to continue to insist that the rule applies to all equipment, just like the code language says.

(and Bob thought Smart was a troublemaker)

 

[masterinbama]

Not that this helps much in your case but we have a sheet metal foreman we work around a lot that chalk lines all his duct runs on the floor and seals it with concrete sealer.

It not only lets his guys see what fabbed up pieces go where but it gives all other trades an easy reference as to where his stuff is going.

As for piping systems I am an electrician and I normally carry the tools to cut piping.

 

[augie47]

I don't see that it makes a difference.

In either case they are not part of the building in my opinion.

I would not argue the point to the degree of rejecting, but I do see distinct difference, albeit possibly not per Code definition.
95% of the refrigs I see roll out, most of the ranges pull out fairly easily, but the dishwashers are usually fastened in place.