Who's responsible to enforce 70E

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the blur

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A commerical building owner hires an electrician to do some work. Troubleshooting, installations, whatever. Who is responsible to enforce the use of PPE or proper procedures? The electrican or the building owner?
 

jim dungar

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Location
Wisconsin
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PE (Retired) - Power Systems
A commerical building owner hires an electrician to do some work. Troubleshooting, installations, whatever. Who is responsible to enforce the use of PPE or proper procedures? The electrican or the building owner?
Both.
 

cecseabee

Member
The electrician is hired to perform the work - licensed, insured, and all the rest. If the electrician fails to perform the work safely (use PPE, etc.) and gets hurt in the process, or one of his workers get hurt in the process, the contractor would be responsible for all damages. Part of the scope of the contract is that contractors know what they need. But real world many times they don't or won't follow safety regs.

The best way to avoid this only hire electricians that understand and follwo safe work practices (especially ones cognizant of NFPA 70E).
 

iwire

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Massachusetts
A commerical building owner hires an electrician to do some work. Troubleshooting, installations, whatever. Who is responsible to enforce the use of PPE or proper procedures? The electrican or the building owner?

I agree with the others and will add that even if you never actully see it being enforced that if you igonore it and someone gets hurt it will be enorced at that time.

A trip to an emergency room for workers comp can start the ball rolling.
 

jim dungar

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Wisconsin
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PE (Retired) - Power Systems
and the host employer would also include a residential customer ??
or this just pertains to light commerical and industrial ?
Everyone, everywhere.
What do you consider residential, an eight unit apartment building? Where is the dividing line between light commercial and heavy commercial?

When I hired a roofer for my house, I made sure that they carried insurance to cover them and that my homeowners insurance covered me.
 

iwire

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Location
Massachusetts
and the host employer would also include a residential customer ??
or this just pertains to light commerical and industrial ?

In my opinion a single family home owner hiring a subcontractor to do work in the home is not a 'host employer'

And even if they are I believe there only responsibility would be to notify you of conditions on site that might effect you.
 

zog

Senior Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
There are many cases in which both the owner and the contractor have been fined following an accident for not following 70E. Most facilities these days will require proof of 70E compliance prior to granting site access.

P.S. Iwire, yes I would require this if work was being doen in MY house :)

View attachment Contractor safety brief.doc
 

infinity

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Location
New Jersey
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Journeyman Electrician
Who decides if 70E compliance is even required, the City or State? In 25+ years I've never been on a job where 70E compliance was requred.
 

jim dungar

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Wisconsin
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PE (Retired) - Power Systems
Who decides if 70E compliance is even required....
Usually a judge or jury.:)

During a lawsuit or the appeal of an assessed fine, the question will often arise; What steps did you take to identify protect against hazards?, Which industry accepted practices did you follow?
 

iwire

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Massachusetts
Who decides if 70E compliance is even required, the City or State? In 25+ years I've never been on a job where 70E compliance was requred.

This is from 2006 so specifics may have changed but not the overall meaning.

Question: Has OSHA promulgated or changed any standards to directly incorporate NFPA 70E-2000 at this time?

Response: No. The electrical installation requirements and the electrical safety-related work practices in OSHA's general industry standards in Subpart S--Electrical Work, are based on previous editions of 70E. However, OSHA has proposed to update the installation requirements in Subpart S based on Part I of the 2000 edition of NFPA 70E. See 69 Federal Register 17773 (April 5, 2004). Later stages of this rulemaking project will also be based on other parts of NFPA 70E. Also, it should be noted that the latest edition of the NFPA standard is NFPA 70E-2004.

Because OSHA has not adopted through rulemaking the requirements of a more recent edition of NFPA 70E, those requirements have not become OSHA standards. A national consensus standard, however, can sometimes be relevant to a general duty clause citation in the sense that the consensus standard may be used as evidence of hazard recognition and the availability of feasible means of abatement. The general duty clause, Section 5(a)(1) of the OSH Act, is violated if an employer has failed to furnish a workplace that is free from recognized hazards causing or likely to cause death or serious physical harm. The general duty clause is used where there is no standard that applies to the particular hazards involved.


http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=25540
 

WorkSafe

Senior Member
Location
Moore, OK
If it's a OSHA citation, it could fall under the multi-employer worksite.

OSHA said:
6. Multiemployer Worksites. On multiemployer worksites, both construction and non-construction, citations normally shall be issued to employers whose employees are exposed to hazards (the exposing employer).

(a) Additionally, the following employers normally shall be cited, whether or not their own employees are exposed, but see C.2.c.(a)2 of this chapter for Section 5(a)(1) violation guidance:
The employer who actually creates the hazard (the creating employer);
The employer who is responsible, by contract or through actual practice, for safety and health conditions on the worksite; i.e., the employer who has the authority for
ensuring that the hazardous condition is corrected (the controlling employer);
The employer who has the responsibility for actually correcting the hazard (the correcting employer).

(b) Prior to issuing citations to an exposing employer, it must first be determined whether the available facts indicate that employer has a legitimate defense to the citation as set forth below:
The employer did not create the hazard;
The employer did not have the responsibility or the authority to have the hazard corrected;
The employer did not have the ability to correct or remove the hazard;
The employer can demonstrate that the creating, the controlling and/or the correcting employers, as appropriate, have been specifically notified of the hazards to which
his/her employees are exposed;
The employer has instructed his/her employees to recognize the hazard and, where necessary, informed them how to avoid the dangers associated with it.
Where feasible, an exposing employer must have taken appropriate alternative means of protecting employees from the hazard.
When extreme circumstances justify it, the exposing employer shall have removed his/her employees from the job to avoid citation.

(c) If an exposing employer meets all these defenses, that employer shall not be cited. If all employers on a worksite with employees exposed to a hazard meet these conditions, then the citation shall be issued only to the employers who are responsible for creating the hazard and/or who are in the best position to correct the hazard or to ensure its correction. In such circumstances the controlling employer and/or the hazard-creating employer shall be cited even though no employees of those employers are exposed to the violative condition. Penalties for such citations shall be appropriately calculated, using the exposed employees of all employers as the number of employees for probability assessment.

http://www.osha.gov/doc/outreachtraining/htmlfiles/multi.html

Obviously homeowners can never be cited nor fined since they are not "employers" with "employees."
 

the blur

Senior Member
Location
cyberspace
So a restaurant owner calls an electrician, and the electrican blows him self up, your saying the restaurant owner is responsible for the electricians actions??

or shoe store, or bagel place, and naturally I extend the question to a light commerical facility .... office building with a warehouse.

These business owners can not be held responsible when they hire a licensed - insured contractor, and if 70e says they are, then I feel the gov't is over steping their bounds.

The obvious reason someone calls a qualified professional, is because they are not a qualified professional.
 

rbalex

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Location
Mission Viejo, CA
Occupation
Professional Electrical Engineer
The property owner is the entity first responsible for safety related of and to the property. That responsibility may be indemnified through various forms of contract, including insurance; otherwise, the owner is on the hook. Some contracts are ?implied,? but it is usually a nightmare sorting them out.

While a professional is hired with the general expectation of competence, ?expectations? can be hard to enforce. This is why most States have licensing laws that require certain minimum levels of contractor performance. It?s also why it?s dangerous to hire an unlicensed contractor.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
So a restaurant owner calls an electrician, and the electrican blows him self up, your saying the restaurant owner is responsible for the electricians actions??

or shoe store, or bagel place, and naturally I extend the question to a light commerical facility .... office building with a warehouse.

These business owners can not be held responsible when they hire a licensed - insured contractor, and if 70e says they are, then I feel the gov't is over steping their bounds.
tatement sat
The obvious reason someone calls a qualified professional, is because they are not a qualified professionalith.

This is a tough pill to swallow but even though you and I may be licensed professional electricians that does not mean we are qualified people. To be qualified we have to have specific training for the tasks we are doing. And if we switch companies we will need new training.


I run a service department many of our customers require that we sign a form saying we will comply with a long list of standards including 70e. Others require that we attend a safety class before we set foot on the site.
 

romex jockey

Senior Member
Location
Vermont
Occupation
electrician
futility.....

futility.....

I often look upon the safety community as the trade's orphaned child

nobody, not the state license boards, apprenticeship orginizations, national elecrical orginizations, eta all of our electrical community wishes to take responsibility for imparting safety related education, or even safety related materias, not even a heads up 'look at this'

everybody wants to pin the liablity tail on the employer / customer donkey

well that obviously isn't working out well when bona fide electricians of significant tenure are confronted by 70E , not having seen or heard of it prior.....

~RJ~
 
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