Repairable Bus or Not

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ramsy

NoFixNoPay Electric
Location
LA basin, CA
Occupation
Service Electrician 2020 NEC
Supplier identified unmarked 1? meter center as SEIMENS / MURRAY from photos, and attributed arc damage to improperly seated Challenger brand breakers. Owner won't pony up for replacement - asking me to quote repair with file & sandpaper.

Burnt bus-1.jpgBurnt bus-2.jpgBurnt bus-3.jpgMacro Challenger.jpg
 
Unless you can move the breakers to undamaged stabs I'd pass.
Owner would be the first to point at you if those stabs burnt again.
 
ramsy said:
Supplier identified unmarked 1? meter center as SEIMENS / MURRAY from photos, and attributed arc damage to improperly seated Challenger brand breakers. Owner won't pony up for replacement - asking me to quote repair with file & sandpaper.

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Do you need the work that bad to assume the liability? If the owner knows that much I would tell him he's welcome to do it. But you are the one who is the licensed professions an.
Who is the owner going to come to after should the panel have a massive failure as a result of that patrch work effort to "fix" the panel?
My outside salesman and I always had a term for this situation, ?We can?t afford to have them as a customer.?
 
No way I would file that. Replace it or nothing. I bet a new cutler hammer or siemens bus could fit in the existing panel.
How did the owner get the idea of filing the bus down? I only ask because you may need to rethink your approach with the owner. When i come across a burnt bus like that, the idea of filing or sanding is never brought up. The options are upgrade, replace like for like, replace bus bar only (If possible), and that is it.
 
This is a no-brainer.

110.12(B) Integrity of Electrical Equipment and Connections.

Internal parts of electrical equipment, including busbars, wiring terminals, insulators, and other surfaces, shall not be damaged or contaminated by foreign materials such as paint, plaster, cleaners, abrasives, or corrosive residues. There shall be no damaged parts that may adversely affect safe operation or mechanical strength of the equipment such as parts that are broken; bent; cut; or deteriorated by corrosion, chemical action, or overheating.
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Relocate the breakers to a different stab. If not enough room, replace guts. If not possible, change panel. In that order.

I don't let customers tell me how to make my repairs, suggestions are appreciated, but we're the professionals here.
 
Cow said:
Relocate the breakers to a different stab. If not enough room, replace guts. If not possible, change panel. In that order.

I don't let customers tell me how to make my repairs, suggestions are appreciated, but we're the professionals here.
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Why in that order? You offer the lowest price and short term repair first? Relocating to another part of the bus should be the last choice... both for my wallet and the customers long term benefit.
 
sd4524 said:
Why in that order? You offer the lowest price and short term repair first? Relocating to another part of the bus should be the last choice... both for my wallet and the customers long term benefit.
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This customer clearly wants cheap. You can try and sell him a whole new panel and he can decline while I can come in there and offer him a cheaper alternative with the explanation that he understands this is simply to get him by. If it keeps happening, he'll eventually run out of space and be in it for an entire guts/panels change like he could of had in the first place.

But honestly, I've never had much luck swapping guts, they never seem to make the same style in the newer panels. So realistically that leaves the customer with two choices. Spend a little money on a service call swapping some breakers and take their chances or spend good money on a service change. It's not hard to know what 99% of my customers will pick....

If you can sell your customer on a panel change for a few bad stabs, more power to you.
 
I can see moving breakers around for one bad stab. "A few bad stabs"... I mean the panels only have so many stabs. I think more than one bad stab and the customer can see the pattern and realize the age, neglect, or design problems. The challenger breakers like the op shows are as bad as any in my opinion. I know the indoor 12/24 challenger loadcenters can be overhauled using cutler hammer 12/24 parts with everything fitting nicely.
 
Here is a challenger overhaul I did in january. It has the part numbers that were existing and the part numbers I used to replace. I hope that helps. The bus does not look as bad as the ops pictures.
$100 in parts and 4 hours labor. (2 hours if I'm talking to another electrician)



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A better picture of the burnt bus bar. The burn at the top was not causing any problems to homeowner. The challenger breakers at the bottom were the reason for the call.
How many labor units to mask off a panel??? This was a big condo complex

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You wouldn't think that the drywall overspray wouuld have had anything to do with I. If the breakers weren't in place at the time it was sprayed the bus could have been sprayed too. From what it looks like to me is the breakers weren't in pace as you could have seen the outline of the breakers if they were.
The original contractor should get gigged on this buy it's probably way to late to do that.
 
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templdl said:
You wouldn't think that the drywall overspray wouuld have had anything to do with I. If the breakers weren't in place at the time it was sprayed the bus could have been sprayed too. From what it looks like to me is the breakers weren't in pace as you could have seen the outline of the breakers if they were.
The original contractor should get gigged on this buy it's probably way to late to do that.
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The electrician is an idiot for placing breakers in that panel without cleaning or replacement. Very irresponsible. lack of good workmanlike installation.:rant:
 
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