- Location
- Simi Valley, CA
:thumbsup:
You sign my paycheck with enough zeros on it and I'll even help you bury the bodies.:angel:
the "i know how" thread
- Thread starter cmreschke
- Start date
- Status
:thumbsup:
You sign my paycheck with enough zeros on it and I'll even help you bury the bodies.:angel:
readydave8
re member
- Location
- Clarkesville, Georgia
- Occupation
- electrician
picture of a tombstone on the back of that check?
jmellc
Senior Member
- Location
- Durham, NC
- Occupation
- Facility Maintenance Tech. Licensed Electrician
That is often a young punk's attitude but I knew an older guy that way to extremes. I would tell the crew, "here is how this has been planned, customer wants this a certain way, our boss wants it a certain way & here is the end product." This guy would still do it his way and smart off when I questioned him on it. Same with other people in charge, especially when we were younger than he. Several of us complained about him & he was later fired.
2 reasonable people can always have a difference of opinion, no issue there. But the boss signs the paychecks & shoulders most of the headaches. Whoever the boss puts in charge should have the final say without having to fight about it. If he demands unsafe work, etc. that's another story.
As a responsible adult, I only smarted off to 1 foreman in recent years. The man loved to dog people. Come off a ladder for material, he was right there "whatcha need?". Step back to eyeball something, "what's the holdup?", that kind of stuff. I came to 1 of his jobs, was floor man to 1 of his guys. Guy asked for a 60 inch strut. I cut it, sent it up & it was too short. He measured again. I saw an obstruction near his anchor beam & asked if he needed extra because of it. Foreman was standing nearby, said "it don't matter, just cut it!". I said "if it don't matter, we can just use the one that was too short." He shouted "you know what I mean!" & stomped off. He was sort of an exception to the rule. No one liked working for him & his own work was somewhat sloppy. Even then, I didn't usually mouth off to him. I'd just had all of him I could take at that moment.
2 reasonable people can always have a difference of opinion, no issue there. But the boss signs the paychecks & shoulders most of the headaches. Whoever the boss puts in charge should have the final say without having to fight about it. If he demands unsafe work, etc. that's another story.
As a responsible adult, I only smarted off to 1 foreman in recent years. The man loved to dog people. Come off a ladder for material, he was right there "whatcha need?". Step back to eyeball something, "what's the holdup?", that kind of stuff. I came to 1 of his jobs, was floor man to 1 of his guys. Guy asked for a 60 inch strut. I cut it, sent it up & it was too short. He measured again. I saw an obstruction near his anchor beam & asked if he needed extra because of it. Foreman was standing nearby, said "it don't matter, just cut it!". I said "if it don't matter, we can just use the one that was too short." He shouted "you know what I mean!" & stomped off. He was sort of an exception to the rule. No one liked working for him & his own work was somewhat sloppy. Even then, I didn't usually mouth off to him. I'd just had all of him I could take at that moment.
Well this particular worker from the op came in the first night preaching about the feng shui of conduit installation. What is that?
The conduit will tell you where it wants to go! That was his reply.
Mine was "the bender in my hand says otherwise"
Turns out he did not own a level either. Box offsets? Not in the feng shui installation practices.
When I bring this all up I'm the bird dog and he knows what he's doing. I'm open minded enough to let someone run with the ball so to speak whether it be on a tight leash or not, but this guy had no decision capabilities in my opinion.
The conduit will tell you where it wants to go! That was his reply.
Mine was "the bender in my hand says otherwise"
Turns out he did not own a level either. Box offsets? Not in the feng shui installation practices.
When I bring this all up I'm the bird dog and he knows what he's doing. I'm open minded enough to let someone run with the ball so to speak whether it be on a tight leash or not, but this guy had no decision capabilities in my opinion.
Fulthrotl
~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
- Occupation
- E
ah, grasshopper..... you are screwing with my chi.....
a shaolin electrician can be seen but not heard
sought, he cannot be found
spoken to, he cannot hear
it is said his wiring can move thru walls
snatch the bender from my hand, and it's time for you to go.......
jaylectricity
Senior Member
- Location
- Massachusetts
- Occupation
- licensed journeyman electrician
renosteinke
Senior Member
- Location
- NE Arkansas
There's a few things that we've overlooked in our race to 'out-alpha male' the guy. Let's back up a bit ...
First off, we're tradesmen, not poiticians. Thus, our people skills may not be the best. It's the job of a leader to LEAD - not to 'push' or intimidate or lord over all.
Second, a little respect is called for. The guy didn't just fall off the turnip truck, and he needs to KNOW that you respect him. Too many in "management" start off with the error of thinking of the working stiffs as wayward children - which they are not.
You hire a pro, you ought not need to tell him the 'how;' just tell him the final goal and get out of the way. I'm amazed at the managers I've seen who go out of their way to hire the best painter in town, then want to tell him how to hold the brush.
If you have additional information to share - if, for example, it's important that the run zig first and zag later - present this to him as an additional specification. Otherwise, he might get the idea you just don't think he can run pipe. That just might ruffle his feathers.
When you're just being thorough, I have found it very helpful to start off by saying "I'm sure you already know this, but it makes me feel better if I repeat it." Then they're amused, and are happy to listen. Or. in a specific situation, you can correct someone with 'what you're doing is usually fine, but we prefer to do it this way ..."
Remember, the guy just might have been whipsawed a few times on the issue, and is trying to please .... and it can be frustrating when that desire to please is met with an attitude from you that he's some sort of rebel or troublemaker!
To invent an imaginary situation, suppose you found the guy back-stabbing receptacles. Before you spout off that 'real electricians use pigtails,' remember the folks at this forum who have asserted that back-stabbing is the only way to go if you're going to make any money. Your guy might have last worked for one of those guys, and caught hell for using pigtails.
Let's not forget the obvious: who are you? Does he know that? Or, are you just one more of an endless parade of folks who stop by every five minutes to 'manage' him? Is it maybe part of your job to keep these other do-gooders off his back?
First off, we're tradesmen, not poiticians. Thus, our people skills may not be the best. It's the job of a leader to LEAD - not to 'push' or intimidate or lord over all.
Second, a little respect is called for. The guy didn't just fall off the turnip truck, and he needs to KNOW that you respect him. Too many in "management" start off with the error of thinking of the working stiffs as wayward children - which they are not.
You hire a pro, you ought not need to tell him the 'how;' just tell him the final goal and get out of the way. I'm amazed at the managers I've seen who go out of their way to hire the best painter in town, then want to tell him how to hold the brush.
If you have additional information to share - if, for example, it's important that the run zig first and zag later - present this to him as an additional specification. Otherwise, he might get the idea you just don't think he can run pipe. That just might ruffle his feathers.
When you're just being thorough, I have found it very helpful to start off by saying "I'm sure you already know this, but it makes me feel better if I repeat it." Then they're amused, and are happy to listen. Or. in a specific situation, you can correct someone with 'what you're doing is usually fine, but we prefer to do it this way ..."
Remember, the guy just might have been whipsawed a few times on the issue, and is trying to please .... and it can be frustrating when that desire to please is met with an attitude from you that he's some sort of rebel or troublemaker!
To invent an imaginary situation, suppose you found the guy back-stabbing receptacles. Before you spout off that 'real electricians use pigtails,' remember the folks at this forum who have asserted that back-stabbing is the only way to go if you're going to make any money. Your guy might have last worked for one of those guys, and caught hell for using pigtails.
Let's not forget the obvious: who are you? Does he know that? Or, are you just one more of an endless parade of folks who stop by every five minutes to 'manage' him? Is it maybe part of your job to keep these other do-gooders off his back?
Kinda similar to what I tell my new ones that I don't know what they are capable of:
"LOOK, I never worked with you, so you might know what I tell you, or you might not. In either case I WILL TELL YOU what I want done, because it's my money you are spending. Once I get a comfort level with you, I'll just tell you :"get this job done". But until then, you'll have to prove to me you have 20 years experience."
"LOOK, I never worked with you, so you might know what I tell you, or you might not. In either case I WILL TELL YOU what I want done, because it's my money you are spending. Once I get a comfort level with you, I'll just tell you :"get this job done". But until then, you'll have to prove to me you have 20 years experience."
jmellc
Senior Member
- Location
- Durham, NC
- Occupation
- Facility Maintenance Tech. Licensed Electrician
What did his work look like? Some oddball people can do good work, others oddballs do oddball work.
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
Because the OP had to ask what others would do I judge the guy to be the far south end of a north facing mule. I have seen the type too many times.
His work was mediocre at best. Had to plumb one pipe that was leaning 2" over 4'. Rest of his pipe work were no box offsets on boxes straps at like 3'6" from boxes. Slow moving.
I could go on. Now I know I'm not any where near the greatest thing since sliced bread but my work looks neat, runs level and plumb, and is code compliant ay minimum.
Final straw was him telling me he could not install a 1 1/4 flex into a rtu because he needed a reducer washer, "which I would have known if I'd have looked at the unit and planned properly so why didn't I have one?"
Ok no problem I says since I did look at it once day before and thought it was fine. O order the reducers the night he quit. I git them the next night and go to install said flex, did not need them at all. Was an inch and a quarter hole to begin with. Now if I screw up and you don't have a part I have no problem admitting it and you will get your part. Don't however tell me its my fault that a journeyman cant put an inch and a quarter flex connector into an inch and a quarter hole.
I could go on. Now I know I'm not any where near the greatest thing since sliced bread but my work looks neat, runs level and plumb, and is code compliant ay minimum.
Final straw was him telling me he could not install a 1 1/4 flex into a rtu because he needed a reducer washer, "which I would have known if I'd have looked at the unit and planned properly so why didn't I have one?"
Ok no problem I says since I did look at it once day before and thought it was fine. O order the reducers the night he quit. I git them the next night and go to install said flex, did not need them at all. Was an inch and a quarter hole to begin with. Now if I screw up and you don't have a part I have no problem admitting it and you will get your part. Don't however tell me its my fault that a journeyman cant put an inch and a quarter flex connector into an inch and a quarter hole.
Richardtheelectrician
Member
- Location
- Kerrville, Tx, Kerr county
Box offsets are a complete waste of time. Why make the pipe crooked to make it look straight?
And if your electric work is anything like how you come across in print, geebus, call the fire department right now!
Richardtheelectrician
Member
- Location
- Kerrville, Tx, Kerr county
PS: I meant that nicely, moderators.
Richardtheelectrician
Member
- Location
- Kerrville, Tx, Kerr county
Against my better judgment, i will elaborate on my thoughts on this thread.
Now I don't know this journeyman, nor will I ever. But we have a 32-year-old "master electrician" glad that a journeyman quit.
Hmmmm, I wonder why he quit? It's not like it's easy to get an electrical job these days, right?
I've said my piece.
Now I don't know this journeyman, nor will I ever. But we have a 32-year-old "master electrician" glad that a journeyman quit.
Hmmmm, I wonder why he quit? It's not like it's easy to get an electrical job these days, right?
I've said my piece.
It's easy enough to find an electrical job these days! P.S. ya gotta know what your doing first though.
As far as glad he quit I could be wrong but I don't think I said I wad glad just relieved.
What about print that says call the fire department?
The reason that some guys (myself included) micro manage jobs is indeed because our necks are just a little bit more on the line than the generic installers neck is. When you send someone whom is "qualified" up to install a switch on an exhaust fan for a commercial kitchen hood and they come back and say all set you should just take their word for it and hope right?
Well I've seen said guy install the factories two pole switch instead of my single pole (120 volt ckt.) and direct short hot to neutral. Fried a 2500 dollar ckt board. Who's rear end got chewed?
I say micro manage away cause you may say that you do know but I won't believe it until I see it.
Btw box offsets are just plain old professional and neat and workman like. Just my opinion?
As far as glad he quit I could be wrong but I don't think I said I wad glad just relieved.
What about print that says call the fire department?
The reason that some guys (myself included) micro manage jobs is indeed because our necks are just a little bit more on the line than the generic installers neck is. When you send someone whom is "qualified" up to install a switch on an exhaust fan for a commercial kitchen hood and they come back and say all set you should just take their word for it and hope right?
Well I've seen said guy install the factories two pole switch instead of my single pole (120 volt ckt.) and direct short hot to neutral. Fried a 2500 dollar ckt board. Who's rear end got chewed?
I say micro manage away cause you may say that you do know but I won't believe it until I see it.
Btw box offsets are just plain old professional and neat and workman like. Just my opinion?
Richardtheelectrician
Member
- Location
- Kerrville, Tx, Kerr county
Nope, no respect for you here, buddy.
Richardtheelectrician
Member
- Location
- Kerrville, Tx, Kerr county
Okay! El no problemo! But I think reasonable people here will see that the wrong person lost his job.
Sure I spose your right. While we are now not bending box offsets we should not use plastic bushings on smaller pipe as its not required and we should all just stab into the backs of receptacles as well as it is compliant. Why not get rid of all professionalism so Jorge from Home Depot can get a job too.
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