Holding My Cards Close

[jmellc]

Owed a lousy 800 bucks once. Four months later, I walked into the customers office and picked up his fax machine and started to walk out the door.........they called a BIG warehouse guy who escorted me out of the building (without the fax).
I waited 10 minutes outside the factory.................they cut a check.........never saw them again.

I don't advocate getting into legal trouble but I see nothing wrong with scaring a customer in some small way if doable.

I'd like to see an affordable remote device that could be mounted discretely on the side of a building and route a few ckts of lights through it. Customer does not pay, ride by on the street and kill some lights. They will call in 5 minutes, wanting troubleshooting. "We are on the way, have a check waiting for what you owe us". Get the check, remove the device and reconnect the lights. No check, no lights. Device should be enclosed in a metal box with tamper resistant screws, as hidden as possible, with conduit feed hidden in structure as much as possible; not easily spotted and not easily accessed by their maintenance people.

 

[satcom]

I scanned replies quickly so there may be a similar reply...I don't sign their contract, they sign mine. If you signed their contract you were probably screwed from the start. In my contract a missed payment stops work. Any penned revision must be signed by both parties.

Yup, you can't play attorney and make changes to their contract, usually when your dealing with a larger General contracting company, they submit their contract and your attorney will review it and make changes, and then send it back ti the GC for review and signature.

What happens with a few guys, is they think, they will loose the project if they don't agree to the GC's terms, if they do loose, it is usually a good thing, any contract that is one sided is usually a red flag of problems to come. Getting professional advice in most business situations can't help you grow the business in the right direction. A little of a lot is better then a lot of nothing.

 

[Fulthrotl]

I don't advocate getting into legal trouble but I see
nothing wrong with scaring a customer in some small way if doable.

M18A1 Claymore Directional AP Mine?

 

[gadfly56]

M18A1 Claymore Directional AP Mine?

It's nice they put "This side towards enemy" on the side!!

 

[gadfly56]

For $12,000 a lawyer will eat up everything in sight and then some; don't bother. As others have suggested, file a lien or whatever paperwork is needed to get the ball rolling. Sometimes he can't get the C of O if the title is clouded. Get the lawyer involved only if your intent is to make life miserable for the S.O.B come hell or high water.

 

[zbang]

Two things-
If you write off the bad debt then later collect, you still have to pay taxes on the income (ask your accountant).

In the UK there used to be a company called Smelly Tramps, don't know if they're still around, that would send the same to a business to wait for your check/paperwork. I understand it works pretty well.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Two things-
If you write off the bad debt then later collect, you still have to pay taxes on the income (ask your accountant).

In the UK there used to be a company called Smelly Tramps, don't know if they're still around, that would send the same to a business to wait for your check/paperwork. I understand it works pretty well.

everything i know about collecting uncollectable bills, laundering money, and every kind of
cheezy underhanded business antics was taught to me by owners of aerospace machine
shops.... not at my request.

and one of them who owed me about $1k a long time ago, i knew he'd never pay it willingly,
and my ex wife, who wasn't my ex wife at the time..... had the day off, and i asked her if
she wanted $1,000? she said, of course, and i said... all you have to do is go pick up the
check... here's the address....

she was back in four hours, with the money in cash. the first check they gave her bounced
when she went to slam it at the bank it was drawn on. (first rule)

never stiff a half italian, half lebanese 5'2" female from brooklyn who does aerobics and
kickboxing 6 days a week. (second rule)

if you ignore the second rule, make sure to lock your office door. (rule three)

if you ignore rule three, realize that she won't leave your office till you send someone to
the bank and bring back cash.

and when she's mad, she hits. pretty well, too.

 

[ritelec]

I'd like to see an affordable remote device that could be mounted discretely on the side of a building and route a few ckts of lights through it. Customer does not pay, ride by on the street and kill some lights. They will call in 5 minutes, wanting troubleshooting. "We are on the way, have a check waiting for what you owe us". Get the check, remove the device and reconnect the lights. No check, no lights. Device should be enclosed in a metal box with tamper resistant screws, as hidden as possible, with conduit feed hidden in structure as much as possible; not easily spotted and not easily accessed by their maintenance people.

Heard of some guy doing that with some batting cages he wired.......

I also like the technique of chimney builders installing a plate of glass in the build .

 

[jmellc]

everything i know about collecting uncollectable bills, laundering money, and every kind of
cheezy underhanded business antics was taught to me by owners of aerospace machine
shops.... not at my request.

and one of them who owed me about $1k a long time ago, i knew he'd never pay it willingly,
and my ex wife, who wasn't my ex wife at the time..... had the day off, and i asked her if
she wanted $1,000? she said, of course, and i said... all you have to do is go pick up the
check... here's the address....

she was back in four hours, with the money in cash. the first check they gave her bounced
when she went to slam it at the bank it was drawn on. (first rule)

never stiff a half italian, half lebanese 5'2" female from brooklyn who does aerobics and
kickboxing 6 days a week. (second rule)

if you ignore the second rule, make sure to lock your office door. (rule three)

if you ignore rule three, realize that she won't leave your office till you send someone to
the bank and bring back cash.

and when she's mad, she hits. pretty well, too.

Another point here. If customer gives you a bad check you can go to a magistrate and take out criminal charges. Having a sheriff's deputy serve papers can scare a person and he can get a jail sentence for a bad check, whereas he can avoid bills for a long time.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Another point here. If customer gives you a bad check you can go to a magistrate and take out criminal charges. Having a sheriff's deputy serve papers can scare a person and he can get a jail sentence for a bad check, whereas he can avoid bills for a long time.

having a pissed off half lebanese half italian in your office
will make the arrival of the sheriff's deputy look like the
welcome relief of protective custody.

 

[ritelec]

and when she's mad, she hits. pretty well, too.

Did you zigg when you should have zagged???


Ha ha ha ha ha..........nice Fulthrotl................Thanks for the laugh!

 

[electricguy61]

In CA, you can sue for up to $7,500, if you are an individual or a sole proprietor. $5K if incorporated

http://www.dca.ca.gov/publications/small_claims/file.shtml

 

[GUNNING]

LIke the collection agent... Can I hire her?

LIke the collection agent... Can I hire her?

I have had the Loooong contract routine. I know when to leave the building. These guys are looking to not pay you from the get go. The good news is they are going to hire your competitors. "yeah!"

As for the magic switch on the side of the buidling I had a fire marshal tell me a story about how he tested a bunch of recuits with a welder on a service. Burned all the insulation off the wire and left the building intact. He was quite proud of this.

The collection agent. Since it is a bussiness you can hire a collection agency. Sell the debt for 80 cents on the dollar and let them drive those creapy cheats nuts. Oh yea, they will call their employees too demanding imediate payment or else. Hard to keep good help when your help gets called all day long by Mr Collector.
Might be worth the 20% investment. The problem is you can't activly collect the debt after that. You have to say "I'm sorry sir, your account has been sold." Let them take THAT to the mediator, if they have any office staff left that is. Oh yea, they have to hire an atorney to get to the mediator. Start costing them $ and see what happens.

 

[Fulthrotl]

As for the magic switch on the side of the buidling I had a fire marshal tell me a story about how he tested a bunch of recuits with a welder on a service. Burned all the insulation off the wire and left the building intact. He was quite proud of this.

ow.

note to self: don't annoy that one. he's mean..


nice sparky.... nice sparky..... :angel::angel::angel:

 

[magictolight.com]

"The rest of the story"

"The rest of the story"

We collected a check for full payment on this project today. The gc had sent up so many red flags I may have gotten a little paranoid. Wednesday I ended up in a yelling match with the gc over 5 occupancy sensors that were supplied with the lighting package, and came up missing. Somehow they were my responsibility, on top of carrying the electrical financial burden of this project, I guess, so I ended up eating $250 of Watt Stoppers. Lesson #1: If the contract is pieced together by someone else, read carefully, reread, make notes, read it again, throw it in the trash, and tell them to sign your contract. I should have made sure the 25% first draw was due at a specific time; I had only made sure final payment was due at job completion. If this project had been held up by the GC we would have been screwed. Lesson #2: Watch language that says I am responsible for every electrical item that comes on the project, including items I did not purchase. And when I challenged the GC on it, I knew in the back of my mind he had me with his contract. This company expected us to jump through every hoop, and when told to jump higher without any respect or reciprocity. Oh well, we dodged a bullet. Next time I will be wiser.

 

[Gac66610]

Glad to hear you got paid, and if $250 would get me 12K .... any day of the week
I have never had to sign a contract, I'm thankful for the thread, it will help if I ever need to


:thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[readydave8]

glad this story had a happy ending, I doubt that it would have without op taking the steps that he did

 

[GUNNING]

Legal fees to hire an electrician

Legal fees to hire an electrician

Good job on the closure. Yup, $250 for $12k any day of the week.
Every time you hit a bump in the road add them to your contracts as you grow.
Things like temperary power utility account provided and paid on time by GC to utility and provide receipts by the 10th of the month to Me electric or a backcharge of 150% of bill to the GC to be paid to electrical contractor immediatley or found in default with termination clause enacted (see pages 19 thru 24) , or GC will exclusively use only Me Electric on any projects within 200 miles of this project for the next 5 years, etc..

Instead of using Me Electric use Party of the first part and Party of the second part as defined by paragraphs ... hehehe turn about is fair play. Make em get a lawyer to hire the electrician instead of the other way around.:roll:

 

[templdl]

We collected a check for full payment on this project today. The gc had sent up so many red flags I may have gotten a little paranoid. Wednesday I ended up in a yelling match with the gc over 5 occupancy sensors that were supplied with the lighting package, and came up missing. Next time I will be wiser.

We all have 20-20 hind sight. You should get at least 5 credits for continuing education though.

 

[Fulthrotl]

We collected a check for full payment on this project today. The gc had sent up so many red flags I may have gotten a little paranoid. Wednesday I ended up in a yelling match with the gc over 5 occupancy sensors that were supplied with the lighting package, and came up missing. Somehow they were my responsibility, on top of carrying the electrical financial burden of this project, I guess, so I ended up eating $250 of Watt Stoppers. Lesson #1: If the contract is pieced together by someone else, read carefully, reread, make notes, read it again, throw it in the trash, and tell them to sign your contract. I should have made sure the 25% first draw was due at a specific time; I had only made sure final payment was due at job completion. If this project had been held up by the GC we would have been screwed. Lesson #2: Watch language that says I am responsible for every electrical item that comes on the project, including items I did not purchase. And when I challenged the GC on it, I knew in the back of my mind he had me with his contract. This company expected us to jump through every hoop, and when told to jump higher without any respect or reciprocity. Oh well, we dodged a bullet. Next time I will be wiser.

now, the next lesson.... when you get a check under these circumstances......

drive to the branch it's drawn on, and convert it immediately to a cashiers check made payable to the
same payee... have them draw the check fee out of the check amount.

do NOT just deposit it in your account.

you aren't paid till the check clears. if they won't issue a cashiers check, there aren't sufficient funds to issue it.

now, sally forth and find more customers.... don't forget to keep this one's phone number in your address
book on the phone, so you won't accidentally answer the phone if they call again.

glad to hear it turned out good for you.... i remember sitting there with 8k out on material, and 30k owed
me, and the guy wasn't returning phone calls or anything.... gives you this barfy feeling... the feeling is
proportional to the size of your enterprise... and the percentage of your A/R the deadbeat is.