What Am I Missing? (Motor Reversing)

[wankster]

So there's this vertical milling machine that someone decided to tear apart and now I get to clean up the mess. Most of my experience is with lighting and simple branch circuits, so motor control is new to me. I sat and stared at it for a while, but I'm having a difficult time understanding how to swap the starter leads without putting a line wire where it doesn't belong. I drew up this picture to show you my dilemma. The bottom is the 6 connector switch and it's two positions. The third position breaks all connections. Sorry for the lacking paint skills.

 

[mivey]

So there's this vertical milling machine that someone decided to tear apart and now I get to clean up the mess. Most of my experience is with lighting and simple branch circuits, so motor control is new to me. I sat and stared at it for a while, but I'm having a difficult time understanding how to swap the starter leads without putting a line wire where it doesn't belong. I drew up this picture to show you my dilemma. The bottom is the 6 connector switch and it's two positions. The third position breaks all connections. Sorry for the lacking paint skills.

Are you sure the line goes to 1 & 4 instead of 1 & 3 ?

 

[kwired]

Not specifically drawn to your needs but hopefully helps.

 

[cadpoint]

I'll assume this motor is so old there is no name, no numbers, no nothing?
You presented no electrical service size, no brand names on any equipment...

The internet is you friend if you have any idea what this machine is.

I'd go to Google and go to images, input "diagram 6 pole reverse motor" or "diagram 6 contactor switch" or

"diagram _______ __________" any of the information that I stated, you might be in for some enrichment.

 

[wankster]

I googled a bunch before i turned to the forums, albeit, not with specific brands and part numbers.

The motor is a Craftsman 1hp Mill type capacitor motor. I double checked the name plate wiring to my description above and it is accurate, line goes to tap 1 and 4. I will write down all of the motor amd switch info later.

I'll assume this motor is so old there is no name, no numbers, no nothing?
You presented no electrical service size, no brand names on any equipment...

The internet is you friend if you have any idea what this machine is.

I'd go to Google and go to images, input "diagram 6 pole reverse motor" or "diagram 6 contactor switch" or

"diagram _______ __________" any of the information that I stated, you might be in for some enrichment.

 

[kwired]

I googled a bunch before i turned to the forums, albeit, not with specific brands and part numbers.

The motor is a Craftsman 1hp Mill type capacitor motor. I double checked the name plate wiring to my description above and it is accurate, line goes to tap 1 and 4. I will write down all of the motor amd switch info later.

Doesn't really matter what numbers are motor will be basically what I have drawn. A primary winding and an aux. winding. You have to change polarity on one of the windings to reverse rotation. If it is dual voltage there may be more leads but there is still a primary set and an aux. set of windings. There may be thermal overload in there that could add more leads to the connection compartment but there is still a primary and aux. winding.

Most typical single phase motors have leads 1,2,3,4 for primary winding.

For dual voltage 1-2 is half of the set and 3-4 is the other half. for low volts parallel the sets by connecting 1 and 3 to one line and 2 and 4 to the other. For high volts put them in series, connect one line to 1 the other line to 4 and connect 2 and 3 together.

Aux winding is generally leads 5 and 8 and is usually only 120 volt winding. connect it so it is parallel with one of the halves of the main winding no matter what applied voltage is. If motor runs wrong direction swap leads 5 and 8. To reverse motor with switches or contactors the switching needs arranged so it reverses polarity on 5 and 8.

Any variations are still same concept there is just more (or less) internal taps to the windings brought to a point where things are reconfigurable.

What is a "mill motor"? Most "mills" I have seen are driven by standard NEMA design motors.

 

[wankster]

Mill type is exactly what it says on thw name plate. I will post pictures as soon as i get the chance.

 

[kwired]

Mill type is exactly what it says on thw name plate. I will post pictures as soon as i get the chance.

Are you by chance talking about a metal work milling machine?

Is it a single phase induction motor or some other type of motor?

 

[cadpoint]

They stated Craftsman 1hp Mill type capacitor motor!

A web page of search engine results... Here

 

[ActionDave]

So there's this vertical milling machine that someone decided to tear apart and now I get to clean up the mess. Most of my experience is with lighting and simple branch circuits, so motor control is new to me. I sat and stared at it for a while, but I'm having a difficult time understanding how to swap the starter leads without putting a line wire where it doesn't belong. I drew up this picture to show you my dilemma. The bottom is the 6 connector switch and it's two positions. The third position breaks all connections. Sorry for the lacking paint skills.

I cannot read the diagram. Can the OP or someone type out what it says?

 

[Smart $]

I can't make sense of your diagram for certain.

If, in the top part, the circles with numbers correlate with the switch connections and the lines in the bottom two diagrams indicate "make" between switch terminals, only switch terminals 2 and 4 change "make" to the other switch terminals. Your reversing leads get connected to 2 and 4. Your Lines get connected to a and b, while the B and R get connected to 1 and 3. In the third position, Lines are disconnected from the motor.

 

[wankster]

Are you by chance talking about a metal work milling machine?

Is it a single phase induction motor or some other type of motor?

Yes, it is a metal milling machine, and yes, It is a single phase induction motor.

 

[Smart $]

I cannot read the diagram. Can the OP or someone type out what it says?

Under motor connections

120v:
Red 4
Black 2
Line 1, 4
Yellow 2, 4

Top diagram from left to right:
1 in circle, connecting line labeled Line
2 in circle, connecting lines Y and B
3 in circle
4 in circle, connecting lines Y, Line, and R

Bottom left diagram:
Circles numbered 4, a, and 1 connected by lines
Circles numbered 3, b, and 2 connected by lines

Bottom right diagram:
Circles numbered a, 1, and 2 connected by lines
Circles numbered 4, 3, and b connected by lines

(Someone let me know if I got that wrong anywhere)

 

[Smart $]

Yes, it is a metal milling machine, and yes, It is a single phase induction motor.

Disregard my earlier post on connections, at least for now.

The way I interpret the nameplate, 1 thru 4 is a terminal block in or of the motor.

Is the switch located remote to the motor? If so, are the terminals labeled exactly as "your" diagrams indicate? If not, please redraw and label a thru f.

 

[kwired]

Maybe I am misunderstanding what OP is wanting to know. My drawing was for hooking up a reversing controller. Are you hooking up a reversing controller or just asking how to reverse the motor?

If you are connecting to a reversing controller you will need to disconnect the yellow leads from the terminals (I am guessing this motor just has a terminal board to park leads on instead of just leads like many other motors have, the leads that never need interchanged for voltage or direction are on back side of the board) and run extra leads from controller to connect to the yellow leads - otherwise my diagram is still basics of how this motor is wound and needs connected.

 

[wankster]

the circles at the bottom represent the connectors on the switch. the lines connecting them represent continuity when the switch is in either position.

the labels (letters/numbers) I used are exactly as they are on the switch and the motor. If you notice, the picture i posted of the motor nameplate wiring diagram matches the drawing I made.

I understand that to change the direction I need to swap the two yellow leads at 2 and 4 on the motor. My problem is I cannot see how to swap the yellow leads without ending up with a supply line on 2, unless I were to use a separate switch to interrupt the line connections. Presumably, this machine was once properly wired with this switch, but I really have no way of knowing. It seems a bit odd ball compared to what I find with a google search of your typical reversing switches.

The switch mounts externally to a J-box that is mounted to the motor. sorry if i missed any questions, I'm in a bit of a hurry to get on the road for a camping trip.


thanks for all the help.

 

[Smart $]

Maybe I am misunderstanding what OP is wanting to know. My drawing was for hooking up a reversing controller. Are you hooking up a reversing controller or just asking how to reverse the motor?

AFAICT, the controller is a 3-position switch, likely CCW-OFF-CW. It has six terminals, say a-b-c-d-e-f. No contacts make in OFF position. In CCW position, a-b-c and d-e-f respectively make contact. In CW position two of the terminals swap make set. Needing confirmation.

If you are connecting to a reversing controller you will need to disconnect the yellow leads from the terminals (I am guessing this motor just has a terminal board to park leads on instead of just leads like many other motors have, the leads that never need interchanged for voltage or direction are on back side of the board) and run extra leads from controller to connect to the yellow leads - otherwise my diagram is still basics of how this motor is wound and needs connected.

Correct. To swap yellows via the switch controller, they will have to be disconnected from the motor terminals, and run to the switch. Their switched complements will run back to the motor and connect where the yellows were lifted.

Also correct about permanent connection(s) to back. Somewhere in it all, the overload switch gets connected.

Right now I'm thinking the Black and Red leads are one end of the dual voltage windings. The other ends are connected to backside of 1 and 4.

 

[wankster]

AFAICT, the controller is a 3-position switch, likely CCW-OFF-CW. It has six terminals, say a-b-c-d-e-f. No contacts make in OFF position. In CCW position, a-b-c and d-e-f respectively make contact. In CW position two of the terminals swap make set. Needing confirmation.


Correct. To swap yellows via the switch controller, they will have to be disconnected from the motor terminals, and run to the switch. Their switched complements will run back to the motor and connect where the yellows were lifted.

Also correct about permanent connection(s) to back. Somewhere in it all, the overload switch gets connected.

Right now I'm thinking the Black and Red leads are one end of the dual voltage windings. The other ends are connected to backside of 1 and 4.

Correct, I wish to reverse the motor via the reversing switch that was mounted to the machine, wires all in disarray. The lower half of my drawing represents the switch positions, the lines between the circles represent continuity between connectors, and the letters are exactly as written on the actual switch. I understand the yellow wires at the motor will have go through the switch. And yes, the switch makes no contacts in the off position. I'm not familiar with CCW and CW, but the switch is labeled forward and reverse for it's two running positions, off being the center position.

 

[ActionDave]

What it looks like to me-The top diagram is shows the motor wired for 120V. Black and red are two and three of the running windings. Yellow is obviously the starting winding.
Position two on the motor terminal board is the extra connection to the thermal when the motor is hooked up 120V.

 

[ActionDave]

AFAICT, the controller is a 3-position switch, likely CCW-OFF-CW. It has six terminals, say a-b-c-d-e-f. No contacts make in OFF position. In CCW position, a-b-c and d-e-f respectively make contact. In CW position two of the terminals swap make set. Needing confirmation.

I agree.