Termination temperatures around the globe

[T.M.Haja Sahib]

Care to explain why?

Well.

I think you did not study the link in post # 28 or the observation in post # 30.

The link in post # 28 states that for 65C temperature rise terminals of IEC starters and contactors, 75C rated conductors are required.

Again take a look at post#30.

Can you show any evidence ( such as mentioned in any application manual) that 90C rated conductor may be used at its full rating for the IEC contactors you mentioned in post # 23.

By the way, I also want to honor you by bestowing you the 'honorary' title of LPGS-labor party general secretary.

......great and good Maharaja to bestow his most humble servant,....

 

[K8MHZ]

I am pretty darn sure he was just joking around.

Yes Bob, you are correct. I guess that some people get British humor and others don't.

Whatcha gonna do?

 

[Besoeker]

Yes Bob, you are correct. I guess that some people get British humor and others don't.

Whatcha gonna do?

I do apologise. I should have noted the smiley.
And the British don't have a sense of humor. It's humour.
What should we do?
Possibly serving you notice of revocation of your independence might be a good start in reversing your recalcitrant ways....
back at ya, pal!

 

[K8MHZ]

I do apologise. I should have noted the smiley.
And the British don't have a sense of humor. It's humour.
What should we do?
Possibly serving you notice of revocation of your independence might be a good start in reversing your recalcitrant ways....
back at ya, pal!

I guess that's better than being forced to watch several hours of Black Adder.

 

[Besoeker]

Well.

I think you did not study the link in post # 28 or the observation in post # 30.

Incorrect again.
It's a paper from an I triple E conference in Venezuela. As such, it has no jurisdiction in Euroland so does not exclude my operating XPLE at 90C if it is so rated.

The link in post # 28 states that for 65C temperature rise terminals of IEC starters and contactors, 75C rated conductors are required.

The exact wording of the paragraph you refer to is:

Traditional NEMA starters and contactors are designed for use with 60?C temperature wire with a corresponding allowable 50?C terminal temperature rise, IEC starters and contactors, and those NEMA starters and contactors so marked, require 75?C temperature wire with a corresponding 65?C allowable terminal temperature rise when UL Listed.

A few points come out of this.
UL isn't from Euroland.
And what does "require 75?C temperature wire" mean anyway? The context infers that you can't use 60C wire so have to use 75C. On that basis it is a minimum requirement, not a maximum.
Furthermore, BS7671 cables list neither 60C nor 75C conductor ratings.
In short, your link is irrelevant.

Can you show any evidence ( such as mentioned in any application manual) that 90C rated conductor may be used at its full rating for the IEC contactors you mentioned in post # 23.

The Schneider and Siemens sourced data I provided is not good enough for you??

By the way, I also want to honor you by bestowing you the 'honorary' title of LPGS-labor party general secretary.

Politely declined. I'm of more of a conservative/capitalist disposition than Labour/socialist.

 

[Besoeker]

I guess that's better than being forced to watch several hours of Black Adder.

Or Friends
Or Cheers
Or Two and a Half Men...
Mais, chacun ? son go?t

 

[GeorgeB]

If I am using Type Z, I get to start at 150 and so long as the final rating is consistent with the rating of the terminal, we don't have to change size. Since 50 percent of 43 amps is over 20, we can use 12AWG conductors with a 20 amp OCPD.

I have never seen a connector rated for 150C, but they likely exist.

Mark, you're getting me concerned (as if I wasn't already) about the connections to heater bands in my high temperature extruder applications. 450C cable ... but the connectors? LUCKILY the band maker includes them, and we ASSUME the blowers keep the wire box below that. I deal MOSTLY with high temperature plastics ... 450-500C is not unusual. Now aluminum ... extrusion is actually slightly lower ... how about die casting? Around 650C or 1200F. Electric resistance heating is common. I'm unsure with ferrous foundry remelting ... initial is done via arc. but I don't remember how it is done. My work has been after is has frozen.

What do we do with high temp thermocouples ... ceramic insulators, extension material pressure pads with usually 400 series SS screws ... at least currents are negligible. But 1000C is not at ALL out of normal range.

 

[K8MHZ]

Mark, you're getting me concerned (as if I wasn't already) about the connections to heater bands in my high temperature extruder applications. 450C cable ... but the connectors? LUCKILY the band maker includes them, and we ASSUME the blowers keep the wire box below that. I deal MOSTLY with high temperature plastics ... 450-500C is not unusual. Now aluminum ... extrusion is actually slightly lower ... how about die casting? Around 650C or 1200F. Electric resistance heating is common. I'm unsure with ferrous foundry remelting ... initial is done via arc. but I don't remember how it is done. My work has been after is has frozen.

What do we do with high temp thermocouples ... ceramic insulators, extension material pressure pads with usually 400 series SS screws ... at least currents are negligible. But 1000C is not at ALL out of normal range.

I used to work for a die cast company, they did both AL and zinc.

The metal is melted in huge gas furnaces but 'held' at the machines in electric furnaces. The connections are in enclosures that are very well insulated with stuff like fire brick, board and kaowool. We used teflon 105C wiring to connect the elements to the term board and just ran THHN from there back to the breaker. Typically, it would be a 60A 480 three phase ordeal. That worked fine until someone managed to get melted AL inside, and when that happened heat was just a secondary concern over the fireworks. The T couples we used were in tubes and we just used t-couple wiring back to the term panel.

When I was at Mittal Steel I didn't get to see the arc furnaces, I was in blast oxygen, which is it's own furnace. That place was really nasty and I really didn't want to explore.

I have been in factories like you are in (ADAC in Muskegon) but didn't get to work on anything.

 

[Besoeker]

When I was at Mittal Steel I didn't get to see the arc furnaces, I was in blast oxygen, which is it's own furnace. That place was really nasty and I really didn't want to explore.

Off topic but electrical just the same....
Awesome things, arc furnaces. We did the controls for a few when the UK actually had a steel industry.
Someone once described it to me as the nearest thing to hell you will see in this life. The spectacle is certainly awesome. But the thing that got to me most was the noise. You feel it as much as hear it.
At 100MW, even if just 0.1% ends up as noise, that still 100kW. Put that in a disco and it would drown out even the Eurovision song contest...and wouldn't that be a good thing..........

 

[K8MHZ]

Off topic but electrical just the same....
Awesome things, arc furnaces. We did the controls for a few when the UK actually had a steel industry.
Someone once described it to me as the nearest thing to hell you will see in this life. The spectacle is certainly awesome. But the thing that got to me most was the noise. You feel it as much as hear it.
At 100MW, even if just 0.1% ends up as noise, that still 100kW. Put that in a disco and it would drown out even the Eurovision song contest...and wouldn't that be a good thing..........

I couldn't find a vid of the exact building I was in, but here is the same process done in Poland. Start at 26 seconds. The pour they are doing is very neat compared to the ones I saw. Same size, same machine, but the crane op poured much faster and flames would roll off the ceiling which was 90 feet above the floor.

The first time I saw it I thought, 'This must be what the gates of Hell look like'.

 

[T.M.Haja Sahib]

It's a paper from an I triple E conference in Venezuela. As such, it has no jurisdiction in Euroland so does not exclude my operating XPLE at 90C if it is so rated.

Nowhere XLPE cable or any 90C cable for that matter is designed to be operated at its 90C rating. But if you try to do so, it is a misapplication.

 

[Besoeker]

Nowhere XLPE cable or any 90C cable for that matter is designed to be operated at its 90C rating. But if you try to do so, it is a misapplication.

BS7671 says otherwise. Either it's wrong or you are.
And I know which one I believe.

 

[T.M.Haja Sahib]

BS7671 says otherwise. Either it's wrong or you are.
And I know which one I believe.

Unfortunately you have no idea about this.

Suppose the load current is exactly equal to the tabulated 90C rating of a cable of size 'X' and no deration is involved in this case. Per your statement, this cable size 'X ' can be used here. But this is a misapplication really.

 

[Besoeker]

Unfortunately you have no idea about this.

Suppose the load current is exactly equal to the tabulated 90C rating of a cable of size 'X' and no deration is involved in this case. Per your statement, this cable size 'X ' can be used here. But this is a misapplication really.

As I said, either BS7671 is wrong or you are.