Under the NEC or Not?

[kwired]

Not those words exactly, but I'll go with 300.1(B) and 'conductors that form an integral part of ...listed utilization equipment'. I think it definitely excludes a self-contained unit containing a PV power source and utilization equipment and no external connections. And while article 100, for example, may apply to such a unit, there is pretty much nothing in it that will substantively affect its installation.



I don't know why you'd say that, because I don't know specifically what you and I are in disagreement about.

The part that makes your point a little more of a gray area is the fact that you have one part of the "system" outside and the other part located remote from the first part, and a wiring method between the two. If it were truly one piece unit more people would buy the fact that it is a self contained unit

 

[jaggedben]

The part that makes your point a little more of a gray area is the fact that you have one part of the "system" outside and the other part located remote from the first part, and a wiring method between the two. If it were truly one piece unit more people would buy the fact that it is a self contained unit

Actually, I wasn't referring the OPs device, I was referring to the "other products" I mentioned in post #24. For example, like this one.

 

[kwired]

Actually, I wasn't referring the OPs device, I was referring to the "other products" I mentioned in post #24. For example, like this one.

Good example - what you suppose the inspector in OP may have to say about that.

The problem with the product in the OP is it does require conductors to be run through the premises, now it gets complicated as far as NEC goes because it is not specifically addressed in NEC unless you call it something it likely was not intended to be categorized as by both the manufacturer as well as the NEC.

 

[Little Bill]

Good example - what you suppose the inspector in OP may have to say about that.

The problem with the product in the OP is it does require conductors to be run through the premises, now it gets complicated as far as NEC goes because it is not specifically addressed in NEC unless you call it something it likely was not intended to be categorized as by both the manufacturer as well as the NEC.

True there is a conductor run inside the building. However the conductor came packaged with the unit. It has push-in connectors keyed and color coded so that it will not be reversed and nothing else can be connected to it. Well, I suppose you could cut off the connectors and add another type connector, but as is, it only fits the unit.

The unit is actually for an attic. HO can purchase this to replace a regular roof vent with no wiring required. No wiring from the premises wiring that is.

 

[kwired]

True there is a conductor run inside the building. However the conductor came packaged with the unit. It has push-in connectors keyed and color coded so that it will not be reversed and nothing else can be connected to it. Well, I suppose you could cut off the connectors and add another type connector, but as is, it only fits the unit.

The unit is actually for an attic. HO can purchase this to replace a regular roof vent with no wiring required. No wiring from the premises wiring that is.

If there is a listing and installation instructions for the listing are followed I don't see that there is much NEC that applies especially 690.

 

[shortcircuit2]

90.2 states that the code covers installation of electrical equipment. The solar fan is electrical equipment IMO...

 

[jxofaltrds]

90.2 states that the code covers installation of electrical equipment. The solar fan is electrical equipment IMO...

And if this equipment comes with installation instructions and you follow them should I pass the installation?

110.3(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment
shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions
included in the listing or labeling.

http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/rewilliams/gableinstall.pdf

 

[shortcircuit2]

I agree. Most instructions I have read say the product should be installed according to local codes also...NEC included. The location is in a barn. Article 547 also covers electrical equipment in barns.

 

[BillK-AZ]

The Listed AC powered attic fans that are on the market include a high temperature cut off control that is intended to stop the fan from venting a fire.

From the photos it is not clear that this feature is included in the system under discussion. I understand that this is a Consumer Product Safety requirement and not a NEC requirement. It may only apply to a residence, but is a good idea.

 

[Little Bill]

And if this equipment comes with installation instructions and you follow them should I pass the installation?

110.3(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment
shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions
included in the listing or labeling.

http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/rewilliams/gableinstall.pdf
View attachment 7061

This looks like or very similar to the one I encountered. Did you happen to see on the website if this was listed or not? The link you posted was only an instruction sheet and I didn't see a page for a cut sheet.

The Listed AC powered attic fans that are on the market include a high temperature cut off control that is intended to stop the fan from venting a fire.

From the photos it is not clear that this feature is included in the system under discussion. I understand that this is a Consumer Product Safety requirement and not a NEC requirement. It may only apply to a residence, but is a good idea.

The fan did have a non adjustable thermostat. It probably is just a high temperature cut off, however it just said thermostat on it.

 

[jxofaltrds]

This looks like or very similar to the one I encountered. Did you happen to see on the website if this was listed or not? The link you posted was only an instruction sheet and I didn't see a page for a cut sheet.



The fan did have a non adjustable thermostat. It probably is just a high temperature cut off, however it just said thermostat on it.

I did not see any listing. What qualifys as a label?

 

[Little Bill]

I did not see any listing. What qualifys as a label?

I would guess something attached to the unit either with the information for the unit or directing you to the papers that include the information that come with the unit.

You're the inspector, tell me what qualifies as a label.

 

[kwired]

90.2 states that the code covers installation of electrical equipment. The solar fan is electrical equipment IMO...

And so is many other items that are self powered by batteries, solar, wind, etc.

 

[jaggedben]

And so is many other items that are self powered by batteries, solar, wind, etc.

I think 'installation' is a key word.

I would say the attic fan I posted a link for earlier is under the scope by the NEC (even though I think the NEC has nothing important so say about its installation).

This is not.

The only meaningful difference is that the latter is not 'installed.'

 

[iwire]

And so is many other items that are self powered by batteries, solar, wind, etc.

And perhaps as the rules are written the NEC applies to those as well. I am not saying it should, just that it may per the words they chose to use.

My point is in some areas there is no enforcement of chapter 800 type installations. That does not mean the NEC does not apply, it just means no one cares.

 

[Little Bill]

I think 'installation' is a key word.

I would say the attic fan I posted a link for earlier is under the scope by the NEC (even though I think the NEC has nothing important so say about its installation).

This is not.

The only meaningful difference is that the latter is not 'installed.'

Not sure what you are referencing in the link you posted, but I want some of those designer sunglasses towards the bottom of the page. For my wife!

 

[jaggedben]

Not sure what you are referencing in the link you posted, but I want some of those designer sunglasses towards the bottom of the page. For my wife!

Link is for a solar reading lamp. In case anyone else if having trouble viewing it. I don't see the sunglasses.

 

[Little Bill]

Link is for a solar reading lamp. In case anyone else if having trouble viewing it. I don't see the sunglasses.

You have to look a little above what you are looking at!:angel:

 

[jxofaltrds]

I would guess something attached to the unit either with the information for the unit or directing you to the papers that include the information that come with the unit.

You're the inspector, tell me what qualifies as a label.

Labeled. Equipment or materials to which has been attached a label, symbol, or other identifying mark of an organization that is acceptable to the authority having jurisdiction and concerned with product evaluation, that maintains periodic inspection of production of labeled equipment or materials, and by whose labeling the manufacturer indicates compliance with appropriate standards or performance in a specified manner.

 

[kwired]

I think 'installation' is a key word.

I would say the attic fan I posted a link for earlier is under the scope by the NEC (even though I think the NEC has nothing important so say about its installation).

This is not.

The only meaningful difference is that the latter is not 'installed.'

How about battery powered smoke alarms then?

They are "installed" yet electrically, are a self contained unit. Same with previously mentioned landscape lights.

I might be able to come up with other similar examples.