grounding electrode conductor installation 250.64

[devin560]

250.64(D)(1)
To bond the grounding electrical conductor, can you use a split bolt and is it approved for that use?

 

[jaggedben]

If it's listed for grounding and bonding, then yes.

 

[jxofaltrds]

250.64(D)(1)
To bond the grounding electrical conductor, can you use a split bolt and is it approved for that use?

Is it irreversible? Hold that thought. Didn't understand your post.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

250.64(D)(1)
To bond the grounding electrical conductor, can you use a split bolt and is it approved for that use?

A ground electrode conductor or a bonding jumper? The GEC must be continuous but a split bolt may be used for the bonding jumpers.

 

[jaggedben]

I think if we are talking 250.64(D) we are talking a common GEC and taps, and this section doesn't actually say that the taps have to be irreversible, just that the common has to be without a splice or joint. At least in 2011.

 

[infinity]

Taps made to the GEC can be installed with split bolts. Something like this from the NECH:

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Taps made to the GEC can be installed with split bolts. Something like this from the NECH:

How is that continuous and irreversible. If one of the GEC is continuous then I agree but IMO that is not compliant or I am very confused.

 

[jxofaltrds]

How is that continuous and irreversible. If one of the GEC is continuous then I agree but IMO that is not compliant or I am very confused.

Your not. Split bolts can not be used.

What's cool about exhibit 250.27 is I could run 6" of #2 and run my #8 and #4 to that small piece!

Now do not confuse this with 250.30(A)(6)(a).

 

[jaggedben]

How is that continuous and irreversible.

Again, if we're looking at the 2011 code, 250.64(D) doesn't require either of those things.

I'm a little confused as to why (D) has it's own list of connection methods instead of just referring to (C). But since it does, I take it that (C) does not apply.

 

[infinity]

How is that continuous and irreversible. If one of the GEC is continuous then I agree but IMO that is not compliant or I am very confused.

The #2 is the GEC, the #8 and #4 are taps and are not the GEC therefore they can be tapped with standard split bolts.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Again, if we're looking at the 2011 code, 250.64(D) doesn't require either of those things.

I'm a little confused as to why (D) has it's own list of connection methods instead of just referring to (C). But since it does, I take it that (C) does not apply.

(C) applys:

(C)(2) Sections of busbars shall be permitted to be connected
together to form a grounding electrode conductor.

(D)(3) Connections to an aluminum or copper busbar not less
than 6 mm ? 50 mm (1⁄4 in. ? 2 in.). The busbar shall be
securely fastened and shall be installed in an accessible
location. Connections shall be made by a listed connector
or by the exothermic welding process. If aluminum
busbars are used, the installation shall comply with
250.64(A).

but this

 

[jxofaltrds]

The #2 is the GEC, the #8 and #4 are taps and are not the GEC therefore they can be tapped with standard split bolts.

Wrong! Please read what they are calling in the handbook figure that you provided. They are GECs.

If you still believe that I am wrong how can the #2 GEC meet (C) if it stops? And if it terminates (my new favorite word ) under a split bolt then it violates (C).

 

[infinity]

The #2 is the GEC, the #8 and #4 are taps and are not the GEC therefore they can be tapped with standard split bolts.

Wrong! Please read what they are calling in the handbook figure that you provided. They are GECs.

If you still believe that I am wrong how can the #2 GEC meet (C) if it stops? And if it terminates (my new favorite word ) under a split bolt then it violates (C).

I don't think so. I posted handbook commentary. Show where it says that I'm wrong in the NEC.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

250.64(C) does not apply to installations that have multiple service disconnects. 250.64(D) applies to services with multiple disconnects and the code section clearly calls the conductor that is run from the GEC to the service disconnects a "grounding electrode conductor tap". The section clearly permits any connector listed for grounding and bonding to be used to connect the grounding electrode taps to the grounding electrode conductor. The grounding electrode conductor must remain unspliced. There is no requirement that the grounding electrode conductor be run to one of the disconnects.

 

[jxofaltrds]

I don't think so. I posted handbook commentary. Show where it says that I'm wrong in the NEC.

OK. The only way to do so is to ask you what are the each of the conductors called in the handbook figure?

Would it be fair to say that a GEC connects to an electrode? I guess I assume (C) means continuous to an electrode. NEC doesn't say so but we all believe this!

 

[jxofaltrds]

250.64(C) does not apply to installations that have multiple service disconnects. 250.64(D) applies to services with multiple disconnects and the code section clearly calls the conductor that is run from the GEC to the service disconnects a "grounding electrode conductor tap". The section clearly permits any connector listed for grounding and bonding to be used to connect the grounding electrode taps to the grounding electrode conductor. The grounding electrode conductor must remain unspliced. There is no requirement that the grounding electrode conductor be run to one of the disconnects.

OK it only needs to be continuous till it ends! :?

So what does all this mean?

(2) Individual Grounding Electrode Conductors. A
grounding electrode conductor shall be connected between
the grounded conductor in each service equipment disconnecting
means enclosure and the grounding electrode system.
Each grounding electrode conductor shall be sized in
accordance with 250.66 based on the service-entrance conductor(
s) supplying the individual service disconnecting
means.
(3) Common Location. A grounding electrode conductor
shall be connected to the grounded service conductor(s) in
a wireway or other accessible enclosure on the supply side
of the service disconnecting means. The connection shall
be made with exothermic welding or a connector listed as
grounding and bonding equipment. The grounding electrode
conductor shall be sized in accordance with 250.66
based on the service-entrance conductor(s) at the common
location where the connection is made.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Mike,
There are three optional methods of making the grounding connection where you have multiple service disconnects. In (D)(2) you are not using grounding electrode conductor taps, you are running individual grounding electrode conductors from the grounding electrode to each service disconnect. The third permitted method is in (D)(3). Here the grounding electrode conductor is connected to the grounded conductor on the line side of the service disconnects. This could be done where you have a wireway with taps from the main service conductors to the line side of each of the multiple service disconnects. My previous post talked about the first option in (D)(1).

 

[jxofaltrds]

So (A),(B),(C),(E), and (F) do not apply if you use (D)?

You guys do a great job of correcting me when I am wrong, help me get my arms around this!

 

[don_resqcapt19]

So (A),(B),(C),(E), and (F) do not apply if you use (D)?

You guys do a great job of correcting me when I am wrong, help me get my arms around this!

In my opinion, where you have multiple service disconnects, everything except (C) applies. (D) acts like an exception to (C).

 

[jxofaltrds]

In my opinion, where you have multiple service disconnects, everything except (C) applies. (D) acts like an exception to (C).

TY I'll keep reading it but I disagree.