phase taped conductors with colored insulation?

[Dweeber]

All,

Please help me find the NEC 2008 reference for color-coding the phases of a 480v system. In particular, I am looking for the part that says once the pattern has been establshed, whichever that may be, that the colors are to be repeated.

A little background, I looked at a 480v 3 phase panel that had some 277v lighting circuits added to it. The original panel has phase colors of orange-yellow-brown, instead of the more familiar brown-orange-yellow, which is what the electrician installed.

I hope this makes sense, I am trying to reference the requirement to push the electrician to relocate the circuits in the panel to match the original scheme. Currently the added wiring has colored insulation with a re-identified small band of tape on the wires. Looks like a mess to me, orange wires with brown tape, yellow wires with orange tape, and brown wires with yellow tape.

Thanks in advance,

D.

 

[roger]

See 210.5(C) and 215.12(C).

Roger

 

[Dweeber]

Thanks,

Got a little reading to do, but at first blush, it seems that there is no prohibition of using the wrong colored insulation, then re-colored by a taped band.

Perhaps I can use the phrases of "...all termination, connection, and splice points..." to persuade the electrician to re-locate the circuits in the panel and remove the tape bands. I am going to check a few j-boxes out to see what can be seen.

D.

 

[kwired]

First of all, the only colors that are reserved for specific purposes is green, green with yellow stripes, white, and grey, white and gray with colored stripes.

Everything else is up to designer/ installer/ or whoever to decide what to use it for. There is requirements for identification of systems and phases but no specific method required to use for that identification. Posting of the method used is a requirement though.

 

[Dweeber]

Kwired,

I would think that there is an obligation that once a certain color combination (sans the forbidden colors) was used to indicate a certain phase and voltage, it would then have to be repeated thereafter, not? The panel itself has it handwritten in marker that phase A is orange.

Perhaps I am missing something, or adding something.

D.

 

[dkidd]

Orange is often reserved for B high leg.

 

[DARUSA]

If the building have two system like 120/208 and 277/480 i though it is a requirement to color code the wires with the proper phase color in all boxes and termination were the cable can be reached !!!

 

[don_resqcapt19]

If the building have two system like 120/208 and 277/480 i though it is a requirement to color code the wires with the proper phase color in all boxes and termination were the cable can be reached !!!

The code rule does not require color coding. It requires that the conductors be identified by phase and system. While the use of various colors of wire is the most common method of providing the required identification, the code leaves the method of identification up to the installer.

 

[kwired]

Kwired,

I would think that there is an obligation that once a certain color combination (sans the forbidden colors) was used to indicate a certain phase and voltage, it would then have to be repeated thereafter, not? The panel itself has it handwritten in marker that phase A is orange.

Perhaps I am missing something, or adding something.

D.

The code rule does not require color coding. It requires that the conductors be identified by phase and system. While the use of various colors of wire is the most common method of providing the required identification, the code leaves the method of identification up to the installer.

I pretty much summarized the rules and Don reaffirmed them. There is no specific rule that says tape must be used or what color should be used other than for grounded and grounding conductors. You can choose any method to identify phase and system you wish. you can use all one color and a marker to identify ungrounded conductors if you want, or even just tag every ungrounded conductor somehow. Most common method seems to be insulation color for smaller conductors and marking tape on black insulation for larger conductors. Once a method of identification is started though it is probably a good idea to stick to it otherwise you may have confusion.

 

[roger]

or what color should be used other than for grounded and grounding conductors.

Actually there are colors mandated for ungrounded conductors in a number of locations in the NEC and even Brown, Orange, Yellow is required for one system.

Roger

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Actually there are colors mandated for ungrounded conductors in a number of locations in the NEC and even Brown, Orange, Yellow is required for one system.

Roger

True in Health Care Facilities isolated power systems-- 517.160(A)(5)

 

[kwired]

Actually there are colors mandated for ungrounded conductors in a number of locations in the NEC and even Brown, Orange, Yellow is required for one system.

Roger

I find color requirements in 517.160 for isolated power systems in health care facilities and 424.35 Marking of heating cables - but that is for identification of the voltage of the cable and is not a requirement for branch circuit conductors.

Any others?

 

[Gregg Harris]

I find color requirements in 517.160 for isolated power systems in health care facilities and 424.35 Marking of heating cables - but that is for identification of the voltage of the cable and is not a requirement for branch circuit conductors.

Any others?

504.80C light blue

 

[Dweeber]

I am unsure of how to reply.....to any of those that had offered advise and references.....


Thanks for the responses, it's going to give me food for thought, though.


The wiring is in conduit, THHWN, inside a commercial facility, 12 awg. There seems to be a small disagreement as to why a person would wire a panel, using colored insulation, and then re-identify those colors with tape. The panel flat out looks wierd; wrong colors on the the previously colored phase. Which color-code was established when the original was installed should prevail, not?

I lack the skills to properly explain, but once an NEC color code is established, isn't there a requirement to continue?

D.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I am unsure of how to reply.....to any of those that had offered advise and references.....


Thanks for the responses, it's going to give me food for thought, though.


The wiring is in conduit, THHWN, inside a commercial facility, 12 awg. There seems to be a small disagreement as to why a person would wire a panel, using colored insulation, and then re-identify those colors with tape. The panel flat out looks wierd; wrong colors on the the previously colored phase. Which color-code was established when the original was installed should prevail, not?

I lack the skills to properly explain, but once an NEC color code is established, isn't there a requirement to continue?

D.

Does the building have more than one voltage system? If not there is no code rule that covers the indentification of ungrounded branch circuit conductors.
If there is more than on voltage system, what edition of the NEC was in effect when the building was built?

 

[Gregg Harris]

I am unsure of how to reply.....to any of those that had offered advise and references.....


Thanks for the responses, it's going to give me food for thought, though.


The wiring is in conduit, THHWN, inside a commercial facility, 12 awg. There seems to be a small disagreement as to why a person would wire a panel, using colored insulation, and then re-identify those colors with tape. The panel flat out looks wierd; wrong colors on the the previously colored phase. Which color-code was established when the original was installed should prevail, not?

I lack the skills to properly explain, but once an NEC color code is established, isn't there a requirement to continue?

D.

The color scheme should be continuous through out the building, how it is accomplished is not a requirement. If the phases are marked B-O-Y-GY at the service entrance then it should follow throughout all panels and any junction boxes where there are connections and more than one nominal voltage. It can be with tape, paint, or tags. The identification scheme used must be permanently posted at each panel board or equipment or documented in a log or manual that is readily available

 

[kwired]

I am unsure of how to reply.....to any of those that had offered advise and references.....


Thanks for the responses, it's going to give me food for thought, though.


The wiring is in conduit, THHWN, inside a commercial facility, 12 awg. There seems to be a small disagreement as to why a person would wire a panel, using colored insulation, and then re-identify those colors with tape. The panel flat out looks wierd; wrong colors on the the previously colored phase. Which color-code was established when the original was installed should prevail, not?

I lack the skills to properly explain, but once an NEC color code is established, isn't there a requirement to continue?

D.

What is the id method with the original wiring, insulation color, tape color? I have used insulation color for phase id as well as use of tape to distinguish separate circuits when more than one circuit is in a raceway. I have also used colored insulation and taped it for phase id.

 

[DARUSA]

The code rule does not require color coding. It requires that the conductors be identified by phase and system. While the use of various colors of wire is the most common method of providing the required identification, the code leaves the method of identification up to the installer.

You are right but not every electrician that come to the job is going to create a new way to identified the system. They should continue with the same type of system identification previously chosen.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

You are right but not every electrician that come to the job is going to create a new way to identified the system. They should continue with the same type of system identification previously chosen.

I never said that you can create a new method of identification in an existing building. I only said that the code does not require the use of color coding to identify the conductors by phase and system. If there is more than one voltage system in the building there is required to be a document that specifies the mehtod that is used to identify the conductors by phase and system. That document must be followed for any additional work in that building.

 

[DARUSA]

I never said that you can create a new method of identification in an existing building. I only said that the code does not require the use of color coding to identify the conductors by phase and system. If there is more than one voltage system in the building there is required to be a document that specifies the mehtod that is used to identify the conductors by phase and system. That document must be followed for any additional work in that building.

Don the OP is loking for a way to enforce the Electrician to follow the previous color code asigned to the system.