Phasing wires in conduit

[shawnbebout]

Lunch bet question. I bet lunch that it is now illegal to phase ungrounded (hot's) in conduit. IE low voltage colors phased for high voltage colors. I can't find the actual code article, please post article and help me win a free meal. I know you can still phase wires if part of a multiwie assembly.

 

[kwired]

A little more clarification to what you are asking would be helpful.

If you are asking what I think you are asking, you are buying lunch. But don't worry, I eat almost anything. There is no required color codes you must use.

Only colors that are reserved are white, gray, green, green with yellow stripe for grounded and grounding conductors.

Everything else if color coded can have the determination of what a particular color is for done in the field. If you have a facility with more than one nominal voltage system present then you must establish a method to identify each system and phase but it can be about any method you can imagine. You must post a legend near all panelboards, and other similar equipment to show what the identification scheme is.

 

[augie47]

Not sure it answers your question, but, i general terms, there is no color requirement for ungrounded conductors. Where more than one system voltage is present 210.5 requires identification by system but not necessarily color.
In addition, system of different voltages can share the same conduit if that relates to your question.

The above is a general statement. Particular circumstances can alter the statement.

As kwired states.. clarification would be nice

 

[jumper]

There are a few instances where the NEC mandates colors for ungrounded conductors, but it is rare.

As Kwired asked, can you clarify your question?

Edit: What Gus said also.

 

[jumper]

Are you referring to grounded/neutral conductors by chance?

 

[charlie b]

I bet lunch that it is now illegal to phase ungrounded (hot's) in conduit.

I do not understand the use of the word "phase" as a verb in this sentence. What are you suggesting is being done with the wires?

 

[shawnbebout]

Wiring a 3 phase 480 volt motor. We ran a3/4 emt conduit. Guy only has black, red, blue #10's. He wants to use brown, orange and yellow tape to phase the wire to match existing color code. I told him we need to buy the right colored wire, cause I could of swore that it was illegal to do that in 2011 code

 

[roger]

Wiring a 3 phase 480 volt motor. We ran a3/4 emt conduit. Guy only has black, red, blue #10's. He wants to use brown, orange and yellow tape to phase the wire to match existing color code. I told him we need to buy the right colored wire, cause I could of swore that it was illegal to do that in 2011 code

There is nothing prohibiting re-identifying these particular conductors as far as the NEC is concerned.

Roger

 

[480sparky]

210.5 Identification for Branch Circuits.
(A) Grounded Conductor. The grounded conductor of a branch circuit shall be identified in accordance with 200.6.
(B) Equipment Grounding Conductor. The equipment grounding conductor shall be identified in accordance with 250.119.
(C) Identification of Ungrounded Conductors. Ungrounded conductors shall be identified in accordance with 210.5(C)(1), (2), and (3).
(1) Application. Where the premises wiring system has branch circuits supplied from more than one nominal voltage system, each ungrounded conductor of a branch circuit shall be identified by phase or line and system at all termination, connection, and splice points.
(2) Means of Identification. The means of identification shall be permitted to be by separate color coding, marking tape, tagging, or other approved means.
(3) Posting of Identification Means. The method utilized for conductors originating within each branch-circuit panelboard or similar branch-circuit distribution equipment
shall be documented in a manner that is readily available or shall be permanently posted at each branch-circuit panelboard or similar branch-circuit distribution equipment.

 

[Ponchik]

So where are you taking him out to lunch?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

210.5 Identification for Branch Circuits. ...
(C) ... (3) Posting of Identification Means. The method utilized for conductors originating within each branch-circuit panelboard or similar branch-circuit distribution equipment shall be documented in a manner that is readily available or shall be permanently posted at each branch-circuit panelboard or similar branch-circuit distribution equipment.

Assuming that the building or structure has more than one voltage system, then as long as the method used to indentify the conductors as to phase and system complies with the above part of the code rule, there is no issue. The key is that the method(s) used to indentify the ungrounded conductors as to phase an voltage must be shown on the readily available or permanently posted document.

 

[Strathead]

A little more clarification to what you are asking would be helpful.

If you are asking what I think you are asking, you are buying lunch. But don't worry, I eat almost anything. There is no required color codes you must use.

Only colors that are reserved are white, gray, green, green with yellow stripe for grounded and grounding conductors.

Everything else if color coded can have the determination of what a particular color is for done in the field. If you have a facility with more than one nominal voltage system present then you must establish a method to identify each system and phase but it can be about any method you can imagine. You must post a legend near all panelboards, and other similar equipment to show what the identification scheme is.

I lost a bet once to a smart alec (interpreted as smarter than me apprentice) for making almost the exact same statement. For me it was beer and I paid. You apprently forgot 110.15 orange. This is one of those good trick questions.

 

[roger]

I lost a bet once to a smart alec (interpreted as smarter than me apprentice) for making almost the exact same statement. For me it was beer and I paid. You apprently forgot 110.15 orange. This is one of those good trick questions.

You need to find the apprentice and get your beer back, orange is not reserved only for high leg identification whereas the colors mentioned by kwired are specifically reserved for the conductors he mentions.
See 517.160


Roger

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I lost a bet once to a smart alec (interpreted as smarter than me apprentice) for making almost the exact same statement. For me it was beer and I paid. You apprently forgot 110.15 orange. This is one of those good trick questions.

The code does not require the use of orange color to identify the high leg. It permits methods other than the color orange.

 

[Smart $]

The code does not require the use of orange color to identify the high leg. It permits methods other than the color orange.

However, you cannot use orange to identify any other conductor of a high leg system.

110.15 High-Leg Marking. On a 4-wire, delta-connected
system where the midpoint of one phase winding is
grounded, only the conductor or busbar having the higher
phase voltage to ground shall be durably and permanently
marked by an outer finish that is orange in color or by other
effective means. Such identification shall be placed at each
point on the system where a connection is made if the
grounded conductor is also present.

 

[GlennG]

For some reaon i was under the impression that it is a violation to re-identify the coloring of any wire smaller than #6. Could just be one of those things you always thought was true but isnt in the book.

 

[zbang]

For some reaon i was under the impression that it is a violation to re-identify the coloring of any wire smaller than #6. Could just be one of those things you always thought was true but isnt in the book.

Can't do it for the grounded conductor (200.6).

 

[roger]

For some reaon i was under the impression that it is a violation to re-identify the coloring of any wire smaller than #6. Could just be one of those things you always thought was true but isnt in the book.

That is only true of the Grounded and Equipment Grounding conductors.

Roger

 

[Strathead]

I lost a bet once to a smart alec (interpreted as smarter than me apprentice) for making almost the exact same statement. For me it was beer and I paid. You apprently forgot 110.15 orange. This is one of those good trick questions.

You are right, but so was he, because the difference was
Only colors that are designated are white, gray, green, green with yellow stripe for grounded and grounding conductors.

So I was still wrong then and now.

 

[aftershock]

I remember an inspector telling me that we could no longer use tape to remark on anything smaller than #8. That was about 4 yrs ago and I forget what article he cited if any.