TV & Phone...

[1793]

I have been asked to install the TV and Phone lines for a new construction. I have a few questions:

1 -- Would you run Coax and Phone together to each TV location? I'm planning to make all of these homeruns to the Basement.

2 -- Would you also run Phone lines to other locations in the same rooms for Phone?

The HO is not sure where on the wall, height, they want to mount the TV's which is making this a little difficult to layout.

One TV is planned to be in the Master Bathroom and two are requested for the back covered porch. Would you run the Phone line with Coax to these locations as well?

As always, thanks in advance.

 

[jimport]

Some tv services need a phone line to communicate with the server for on-demand. I would run a phone and a cable to the tv locations. Perhaps for the ones where the height is not known you can leave a loop in the wall. Arlington has a dual box for 120 and LV for old work. Try to have a receptacle under where the TV will be so you can fish it up the wall.

I have 5 phones in the house and only one is plugged into a jack.

 

[1793]

Some tv services need a phone line to communicate with the server for on-demand. I would run a phone and a cable to the tv locations. Perhaps for the ones where the height is not known you can leave a loop in the wall. Arlington has a dual box for 120 and LV for old work. Try to have a receptacle under where the TV will be so you can fish it up the wall.

I have 5 phones in the house and only one is plugged into a jack.

Thanks for your input. I am usually brought in to add TV cables to existing systems after the TV has been relocated.

I've been asked to run just the TV & phone. For the second floor rooms, 4, I could leave enough cable(s) in the attic and fish in after drywall is up. I'll find out today for sure but I think the TV 's will be on interior walls, no insulation.

 

[egnlsn]

The ANSI/TIA/EIA 570B Standard for a grade 2 outlet is 2 CAT5e (or better) and 2 series 6 coaxial cables, while a grade 1 outlet calls for 1 CAT5e (or better) and 1 series 6 coaxial cable. For new installations, it'd be best to always do no less than a grade 2 outlet, with perhaps a grade 1 outlet in the kitchen. For retrofits, I would do no less than a grade 1 outlet at each location.

Satellite receivers use either a phone line or a network connection to talk to the host (they need an internet connection for OnDemand and other interactive services. No OnDemand or Pandora or YouTube without one), while CATV boxes utilize the cable systems return path for that.

For outlet height, if the homeowner doesn't give specifications, place them at the same height as the electrical outlets. They can always be pulled up for a wall mount TV later. Just make sure there's a clear vertical pathway from the ceiling to the outlet. They may want to have their devices in a cabinet at floor level and have an HDMI cable run from there to the wall mount TV.

 

[plumb bob]

Get what they want and where they want it in writing. Do it in a polite way. Why? There is so much gray area in residential low voltage work that it's almost impossible to please a customer by the seat of your pants. Make sure that down the road they have what they asked for- even if that isn't what they need. Because no matter what's installed it probably won't be whats needed (in my experience). It's much better if that was the customers decision rather than yours

 

[hbiss]

Listen to what Ed said. You don't run coax to the TV anymore. It's going to go to the cable box or sat receiver. From there you run a HDMI or component cable to the TV. That means that if the TV is on the wall somebody is going to have to figure out where the box is going to be located, and considering that there are IR repeater systems, it could be hidden in a closet, cabinet or another room. So the HO has to make the decision before you do the work.

What I would do though is run a CAT5e or better to the TV for an internet connection. That should home run back to wherever the router or switch is going to be located.

For phone, you can't go wrong with putting a jack wherever it might be possible to have a phone. Home run those also to a central location. But really, those days are over because everybody uses cordless phones now. So this is something else you need to get straight with the HO. With cordless you'll only need a jack for the base station.

-Hal

 

[1793]

I'm heading out to this job today. Thanks to all who have shared, it has helped. I do very little new construction so it's great to have a resource like this site.

 

[Jhaney]

I have been asked to install the TV and Phone lines for a new construction. I have a few questions:

1 -- Would you run Coax and Phone together to each TV location? I'm planning to make all of these homeruns to the Basement.

2 -- Would you also run Phone lines to other locations in the same rooms for Phone?

The HO is not sure where on the wall, height, they want to mount the TV's which is making this a little difficult to layout.

One TV is planned to be in the Master Bathroom and two are requested for the back covered porch. Would you run the Phone line with Coax to these locations as well?

As always, thanks in advance.

Depending on what part of Lousiville your in the customer can get thier TV through the phone line so if they subscribe to that service then you will want a phone jack anywhere they want a TV.

As a general rule when "and not much more expense" we would wire a new construction house with a phone and cable tv to 2 locations in the living room and each bedroom usually on the opposite side of the room from each other that way the home owner can have some options on where to place their TV and phone. Just a thought.

 

[Silversam]

If it was my house, or if I was getting paid for it, I would certainly follow the EIA 570 spec for grade 2 outlets. While wireless is very common, the speed of wired network connections really improve streaming. Two coax connections are required for some of the high end cable/ satellite boxes. A telephone line is just not enough anymore.

Sam

 

[egnlsn]

The 2nd coaxial cable can be used for OTA, as well.

 

[1793]

I ran RG-6 quad and Cat-6 to each room that the HO wanted to put a TV.

 

[egnlsn]

Now, watch them call you back to add more.

 

[1793]

Now, watch them call you back to add more.

Curse you egnlsn, I just received an email requesting I come back and run some wiring for ceiling speakers in some of the rooms and the covered back porch.

Now I have to ask for yet a little more assistance. Is it acceptable to install just one speaker in each room. The HO is looking to install volume controls for 2 zones, 1 for the inside and 1 for the porch.

 

[Little Bill]

Curse you egnlsn, I just received an email requesting I come back and run some wiring for ceiling speakers in some of the rooms and the covered back porch.

Now I have to ask for yet a little more assistance. Is it acceptable to install just one speaker in each room. The HO is looking to install volume controls for 2 zones, 1 for the inside and 1 for the porch.

You could put just 1 speaker but some of the sound (stereo) wiil be lost. Most of the better A/V receivers have 2 zones in them. Usually speakers "A" & "B". You can switch to the zone or "A/B" and control each separately.

Unless you are talking about the volume knob being on or near the speaker in each location, as some PA systems have for the office areas so that they aren't as loud as the production floor or warehouse.

 

[1793]

You could put just 1 speaker but some of the sound (stereo) wiil be lost. Most of the better A/V receivers have 2 zones in them. Usually speakers "A" & "B". You can switch to the zone or "A/B" and control each separately.

Unless you are talking about the volume knob being on or near the speaker in each location, as some PA systems have for the office areas so that they aren't as loud as the production floor or warehouse.

Cool thanks I forget about this stuff now with all of the new technology of iPods, Tablets and such.

I think the HO is just looking for music, noise, not a real sound aficionado. I have been looking on line and have seen a few single location stereo speakers.

 

[egnlsn]

With Onkyo A/V receivers (AVRs) that have a Zone 2 output, you can either use the Zone 2 output as a powered output that goes directly into speakers, or use it as a line level output that runs into another amp that then feeds the second zone. With it setup the second way, you can listen to a different source at Zone 2 than is running through the Zone 1 speakers. Mr. HO can be outside listening to his iPod while working in the yard while Mrs. HO is inside watching TV. If the AVR is network capable, they could stream music from their computer and listen to it outside or downstairs in their TV room. Or an internet radio station, such as Pandora. There are gazillions of radio stations from across the globe (many of them local broadcast stations) that are on the internet. I often listen to one out of Tampa, FL. Another of my favorites comes from The Netherlands.

Select the Zone 2 source, and you can have it going outside with the AVR turned off.

 

[hbiss]

You could put just 1 speaker but some of the sound (stereo) wiil be lost.

And if you install two speakers, one for each channel, the listener will have to be sitting or standing in the center between them to realize any stereo imaging. This is why it is useless and a waste of money to install stereo ceiling speakers. Install one speaker or a group of speakers to cover the room and feed them with a mono signal from one amp output. To get that mono (A+B) signal either use an amp/mixer that will combine the two channels or combine them yourself into one channel of the amp.

-Hal

 

[gadfly56]

Listen to what Ed said. You don't run coax to the TV anymore. It's going to go to the cable box or sat receiver. From there you run a HDMI or component cable to the TV. That means that if the TV is on the wall somebody is going to have to figure out where the box is going to be located, and considering that there are IR repeater systems, it could be hidden in a closet, cabinet or another room. So the HO has to make the decision before you do the work.

What I would do though is run a CAT5e or better to the TV for an internet connection. That should home run back to wherever the router or switch is going to be located.

For phone, you can't go wrong with putting a jack wherever it might be possible to have a phone. Home run those also to a central location. But really, those days are over because everybody uses cordless phones now. So this is something else you need to get straight with the HO. With cordless you'll only need a jack for the base station.

-Hal

Isn't HDMI limited to 25' or so? Could limit your choice of cable box location.

 

[Rampage_Rick]

And if you install two speakers, one for each channel, the listener will have to be sitting or standing in the center between them to realize any stereo imaging. This is why it is useless and a waste of money to install stereo ceiling speakers. Install one speaker or a group of speakers to cover the room and feed them with a mono signal from one amp output. To get that mono (A+B) signal either use an amp/mixer that will combine the two channels or combine them yourself into one channel of the amp.

-Hal

Well some of the systems I've done had a pair of speakers in some areas for stereo (like patios) and single speakers in other areas (like bathrooms) Your way would have required two different amplifiers, plus combining Left and Right into an amplifier can muddy the music. They do make ceiling speakers that have two voice coils connected to one driver (I've used Proficient C600TT before; I love Proficient!)

Isn't HDMI limited to 25' or so? Could limit your choice of cable box location.

You can get longer HDMI cables that have larger gauge conductors and special compensation circuitry built into the cable, but they cost a fortune. Just recently I did a bunch of plasmas in a restaurant using HDMI baluns and 75' CAT6 cable from Monoprice. The baluns were about $18 a pair (part# 8121) and the CAT 6 was about $10 each. (two CAT6 per link) Total cost for each TV was less than $38, since you get a discount for multiple quantities. I thoroughly tested the performance with 1080p Blu-rays, so they shouldn't have any issues with 1080i from the cable boxes.

 

[1793]

With Onkyo A/V receivers (AVRs) that have a Zone 2 output, you can either use the Zone 2 output as a powered output that goes directly into speakers, or use it as a line level output that runs into another amp that then feeds the second zone. With it setup the second way, you can listen to a different source at Zone 2 than is running through the Zone 1 speakers. Mr. HO can be outside listening to his iPod while working in the yard while Mrs. HO is inside watching TV. If the AVR is network capable, they could stream music from their computer and listen to it outside or downstairs in their TV room. Or an internet radio station, such as Pandora. There are gazillions of radio stations from across the globe (many of them local broadcast stations) that are on the internet. I often listen to one out of Tampa, FL. Another of my favorites comes from The Netherlands.

Select the Zone 2 source, and you can have it going outside with the AVR turned off.

Well some of the systems I've done had a pair of speakers in some areas for stereo (like patios) and single speakers in other areas (like bathrooms) Your way would have required two different amplifiers, plus combining Left and Right into an amplifier can muddy the music. They do make ceiling speakers that have two voice coils connected to one driver (I've used Proficient C600TT before; I love Proficient!)

You can get longer HDMI cables ....

Thanks for the information it is very helpful.