Is this panel wired incorrectly?

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averrign

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Cary, NC
I just inspected a townhome whose 125 amp breaker (located above electrical meter) feeds another panel (located 3 feet away inside the home) and the neutral and ground buses are bonded together (I don't have picture showing this) in this (sub)panel. Is this a violation of code? My gut feeling is yes but I wonder if the distance the panels are from each other makes any difference. Thank you.
 

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Regardless of the close proximity, the neural and equipment ground should be separated in the sub-panel.
 
Thank you!

Thank you!

Thank you! Another instance where the 'gut' doesn't lie!!

averrign said:
I just inspected a townhome whose 125 amp breaker (located above electrical meter) feeds another panel (located 3 feet away inside the home) and the neutral and ground buses are bonded together (I don't have picture showing this) in this (sub)panel. Is this a violation of code? My gut feeling is yes but I wonder if the distance the panels are from each other makes any difference. Thank you.
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And why are we helping a HI 'cite' code? Very limited info here on this installation.

Now this HI thinks he knows how to do an Electrical Inspection! :rant:
 
is there a G-N bond in the outside breaker? is the outside breaker the first picture? the wire sizing seems somewhat small to me.
 
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Seems like the first photo is the service disconnects. Anything downstream of that needs the EGC's and neutral separate.
 
jxofaltrds said:
PS If this was approved there is no code violation!
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And inspectors aren't human and don't make mistakes? HI's are around to stay and do an important service to home buyers. Whether you like it or not, people will rely on them since it is not always realistic to hire individual trades to inspect all the different areas of a house. I like when they ask questions and try to expand their knowledge. It is better than the ones that don't...
 
fmtjfw said:
So this was built prior to July 3, 2012?
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Could be built today that way and be approved. What is codified (the code cycle) makes the difference.

Jacob S said:
And inspectors aren't human and don't make mistakes? HI's are around to stay and do an important service to home buyers. Whether you like it or not, people will rely on them since it is not always realistic to hire individual trades to inspect all the different areas of a house. I like when they ask questions and try to expand their knowledge. It is better than the ones that don't...
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I like HIs. Problem is that you are either a Generalists, as they claim, or specialist. Can't hide behind being a Generalist when acting as an expert.
 
jxofaltrds said:
Could be built today that way and be approved. What is codified (the code cycle) makes the difference.



I like HIs. Problem is that you are either a Generalists, as they claim, or specialist. Can't hide behind being a Generalist when acting as an expert.
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North Carolina adopted 2011 NEC as of July 3, 2012.
Are you suggesting that it would be proper for an inspector (or AHJ) to just ignore 210.12(A)?
 
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jxofaltrds said:
There is your answer!
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I'm probably a little dense this morning ... help me out.

So if the place was build prior to 2011 adoption I agree it's just bedrooms.
So if the place was built after 2011 adoption, I believe there are other circuits listed that require AFCIs, Am I correct?

So if the inspector doesn't like 210.12(A) can he/she just not enforce it? [And does he/she have really good errors and omissions insurance?]
 
Maybe that part of the state there are is no AHJ???

even it was built before NEC 2011, 2008 still required all of the living portions of the dwelling to be AFCI protected.

Besides this discussion, the panel directory has a spelling error and it looks ugly.
 
petersonra said:
is there a G-N bond in the outside breaker? is the outside breaker the first picture? the wire sizing seems somewhat small to me.
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The neutral/ground bars are bonded by virtue of the flat bus bars that connects from the meter box to the bars. Look at the lower-left side of the 1st pic, and you can plainly see the flat bare bus bar feeding up to the first neutral bar, and then the next one feeding across behind the breakers. Service rated only, typical of most meter/panel combo boxes.

That part of the installation is correct.

You can also see that there is an SER cable connected there, complete with a separate insulated neutral conductor, and the bare EGC both connected to the neutral bar.

Seems it would be an easy task to separate the neutrals from the grounds in the larger sub-panel considering both conductors appear to go there.
 
edward said:
Maybe that part of the state there are is no AHJ???

even it was built before NEC 2011, 2008 still required all of the living portions of the dwelling to be AFCI protected.

Besides this discussion, the panel directory has a spelling error and it looks ugly.
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Thanks, I just dug out my old code books. I should have noticed in 2011 that the added rooms were not backed in gray.

I guess the real question is if House Inspectors should, if they provide "electrical inspections", make note of a failure that is detectable with just looking at the panelboard of major violations of the NEC?
 
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