I just inspected a townhome whose 125 amp breaker (located above electrical meter) feeds another panel (located 3 feet away inside the home) and the neutral and ground buses are bonded together (I don't have picture showing this) in this (sub)panel. Is this a violation of code? My gut feeling is yes but I wonder if the distance the panels are from each other makes any difference. Thank you.
Is this panel wired incorrectly?
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Sierrasparky
Senior Member
- Location
- USA
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- Electrician ,contractor
I would agree,
This seem to be a common ocurrance in town homes.
This seem to be a common ocurrance in town homes.
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
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- ESI, PI, RBO
And why are we helping a HI 'cite' code? Very limited info here on this installation.
Now this HI thinks he knows how to do an Electrical Inspection! :rant:
Now this HI thinks he knows how to do an Electrical Inspection! :rant:
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
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- engineer
is there a G-N bond in the outside breaker? is the outside breaker the first picture? the wire sizing seems somewhat small to me.
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jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
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- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
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- ESI, PI, RBO
PS If this was approved there is no code violation!
- Location
- New Jersey
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- Journeyman Electrician
Seems like the first photo is the service disconnects. Anything downstream of that needs the EGC's and neutral separate.
fmtjfw
Senior Member
- Location
- Fairmont, WV, USA
Where are the AFCIs?
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
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- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
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- ESI, PI, RBO
Top right.
fmtjfw
Senior Member
- Location
- Fairmont, WV, USA
So this was built prior to July 3, 2012?
And inspectors aren't human and don't make mistakes? HI's are around to stay and do an important service to home buyers. Whether you like it or not, people will rely on them since it is not always realistic to hire individual trades to inspect all the different areas of a house. I like when they ask questions and try to expand their knowledge. It is better than the ones that don't...
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Could be built today that way and be approved. What is codified (the code cycle) makes the difference.
I like HIs. Problem is that you are either a Generalists, as they claim, or specialist. Can't hide behind being a Generalist when acting as an expert.
fmtjfw
Senior Member
- Location
- Fairmont, WV, USA
North Carolina adopted 2011 NEC as of July 3, 2012.
Are you suggesting that it would be proper for an inspector (or AHJ) to just ignore 210.12(A)?
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jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
There is your answer!
fmtjfw
Senior Member
- Location
- Fairmont, WV, USA
I'm probably a little dense this morning ... help me out.
So if the place was build prior to 2011 adoption I agree it's just bedrooms.
So if the place was built after 2011 adoption, I believe there are other circuits listed that require AFCIs, Am I correct?
So if the inspector doesn't like 210.12(A) can he/she just not enforce it? [And does he/she have really good errors and omissions insurance?]
Maybe that part of the state there are is no AHJ???
even it was built before NEC 2011, 2008 still required all of the living portions of the dwelling to be AFCI protected.
Besides this discussion, the panel directory has a spelling error and it looks ugly.
even it was built before NEC 2011, 2008 still required all of the living portions of the dwelling to be AFCI protected.
Besides this discussion, the panel directory has a spelling error and it looks ugly.
kbsparky
Senior Member
- Location
- Delmarva, USA
The neutral/ground bars are bonded by virtue of the flat bus bars that connects from the meter box to the bars. Look at the lower-left side of the 1st pic, and you can plainly see the flat bare bus bar feeding up to the first neutral bar, and then the next one feeding across behind the breakers. Service rated only, typical of most meter/panel combo boxes.
That part of the installation is correct.
You can also see that there is an SER cable connected there, complete with a separate insulated neutral conductor, and the bare EGC both connected to the neutral bar.
Seems it would be an easy task to separate the neutrals from the grounds in the larger sub-panel considering both conductors appear to go there.
fmtjfw
Senior Member
- Location
- Fairmont, WV, USA
Thanks, I just dug out my old code books. I should have noticed in 2011 that the added rooms were not backed in gray.
I guess the real question is if House Inspectors should, if they provide "electrical inspections", make note of a failure that is detectable with just looking at the panelboard of major violations of the NEC?
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