Legal Help getting paid

[GerryB]

I have a job that might be bad and have never done a mechanics lien. It is a two bedroom addition, kitchen remodel, gut bath and make two baths. The owners moved out while the work was ongoing and needed to move back in. There were many problems, starting with the addition being put up before a permit was pulled. (I didn't know that). Anyway the town gave a temp ok(not a co) to move in before the counter tops were installed. Electrically I was done except for the vanity lights in the bathroom. The plumber had a temp sink in the kitchen. Here is my situation. I am a sub-sub contractor. There is the permit contractor I'll call him, fairly good sized roofing and remodeling contractor who pulled the building permit. They have an office, a secretary, a couple of salesmen, and two project managers. Then there is the contractor who did the work. I have a contract with him and am owed $1300.00. I also have an $800.00 additional work order with the permit contractor that is not signed but was verbally agreed to by the project manager and the permit company owner on a prior walk through. About two weeks after the temp CO the counter tops went in and I finished my work. They have not gotten the final CO, about seven weeks now. Because the owner is not happy with some things I don't think they are in a hurry or letting the final inspection take place. The main permit contractor has assured me I will get paid from them for everything and they will not give their subcontractor what he is expecting. As you can see it's a mess. Anyway the permit contractor has not returned my many calls for two weeks now. The contractor I have my contract with says they owe him still and he will pay me. I am not too optimistic here, but I would at least like to file whatever I can file and not miss any deadline. I am reading three months from when you finish the job, but is the job done without a CO? Any info or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Rewire]

We have prepaid legal service so I just pick up the phone request a call back and in thirty miinutes am speaking with a lawyer. So tyhe advice I will give you is monday morning pick up the phone and get an appointment with a lawyer most will consult for free and will give you an upfront cost to pursue the matter. Securing your rights is the most important thing at this time if you feel you are not going to recieve payment the one thing i have learned is the farther you are from the main checkbook the greater your chances of not getting paid or having to fight for your money.

 

[kwired]

I think the answers to your questions are going to be dependent on the laws where the project is located, and an attorney is probably the best source of information.

 

[gadfly56]

Filing a lien usually doesn't require a lawyer (in NJ anyway). For the amount of money you have at risk, lawyer's fees could quickly make it all disappear. You can usually get the forms at the county seat (or local stationary store) and make the filing yourself. In the case of residential properties in NJ you have to send a "heads up" in the form of a Notice of Intent to Lien. You also have a limited time to file; typically 90 days from the last time you were on site. If you're going to file, make it sooner, not later. Try starting your journey here. Good luck.

 

[kwired]

Filing a lien usually doesn't require a lawyer (in NJ anyway). For the amount of money you have at risk, lawyer's fees could quickly make it all disappear. You can usually get the forms at the county seat (or local stationary store) and make the filing yourself. In the case of residential properties in NJ you have to send a "heads up" in the form of a Notice of Intent to Lien. You also have a limited time to file; typically 90 days from the last time you were on site. If you're going to file, make it sooner, not later. Try starting your journey here. Good luck.

I still think rules can vary quite a bit from state to state. I once successfully filed a lien nearly a year after work was done when I heard rumors that the owner of the place would be filing bankruptcy. I assume this was legal or I likely would have run into roadblocks along the way. All it really ensured me was inclusion in the debtors in the bankruptcy case, the attorneys and banks got all the assets and there was nothing left for anyone else, I think it was still worth the try to get anything that I possibly could have.

 

[Rewire]

Filing a lien usually doesn't require a lawyer (in NJ anyway). For the amount of money you have at risk, lawyer's fees could quickly make it all disappear. You can usually get the forms at the county seat (or local stationary store) and make the filing yourself. In the case of residential properties in NJ you have to send a "heads up" in the form of a Notice of Intent to Lien. You also have a limited time to file; typically 90 days from the last time you were on site. If you're going to file, make it sooner, not later. Try starting your journey here. Good luck.

in my state if I have a written contract I can also recover attourney fees most lawyers will give you the first consultation free and at that point they can tell you if their fees can be recovered the first thing our lawyer does is send a demand letter this is very inexpensive and usually has the desired result.Although you can get the forms at the county seat they will not help you in any way to fill them out and an incorrect filing can cost you your rights .

 

[Rewire]

I still think rules can vary quite a bit from state to state. I once successfully filed a lien nearly a year after work was done when I heard rumors that the owner of the place would be filing bankruptcy. I assume this was legal or I likely would have run into roadblocks along the way. All it really ensured me was inclusion in the debtors in the bankruptcy case, the attorneys and banks got all the assets and there was nothing left for anyone else, I think it was still worth the try to get anything that I possibly could have.

the last contractor to bankrupt on us we were on page 12 of the filing the IRS was on page 1 .

 

[Hv&Lv]

I have a job that might be bad and have never done a mechanics lien. It is a two bedroom addition, kitchen remodel, gut bath and make two baths. The owners moved out while the work was ongoing and needed to move back in. There were many problems, starting with the addition being put up before a permit was pulled. (I didn't know that). Anyway the town gave a temp ok(not a co) to move in before the counter tops were installed. Electrically I was done except for the vanity lights in the bathroom. The plumber had a temp sink in the kitchen. Here is my situation. I am a sub-sub contractor. There is the permit contractor I'll call him, fairly good sized roofing and remodeling contractor who pulled the building permit. They have an office, a secretary, a couple of salesmen, and two project managers. Then there is the contractor who did the work. I have a contract with him and am owed $1300.00. I also have an $800.00 additional work order with the permit contractor that is not signed but was verbally agreed to by the project manager and the permit company owner on a prior walk through. About two weeks after the temp CO the counter tops went in and I finished my work. They have not gotten the final CO, about seven weeks now. Because the owner is not happy with some things I don't think they are in a hurry or letting the final inspection take place. The main permit contractor has assured me I will get paid from them for everything and they will not give their subcontractor what he is expecting. As you can see it's a mess. Anyway the permit contractor has not returned my many calls for two weeks now. The contractor I have my contract with says they owe him still and he will pay me. I am not too optimistic here, but I would at least like to file whatever I can file and not miss any deadline. I am reading three months from when you finish the job, but is the job done without a CO? Any info or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Here is some good reading. OK, maybe not good, but necessary.
http://www.jud.ct.gov/lawlib/notebooks/pathfinders/mechanics.htm

 

[K8MHZ]

Not having a lawyer do legal work is like not having an electrician do electrical work, don't you think?

 

[Rewire]

Not having a lawyer do legal work is like not having an electrician do electrical work, don't you think?

number one post so far

 

[zbang]

Two things-
Small Claims court- You still have to collect, but it's often easier if you have a judgement in hand. (You can go after bank accounts then.)

Poisoning the well- Depending on your relationships with the everyone involved, you may damage that if you file an action. Just keep that in mind, but don't necessarily let it stop you, either.

(I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice . )

 

[robwire]

Filing a lien usually doesn't require a lawyer (in NJ anyway). For the amount of money you have at risk, lawyer's fees could quickly make it all disappear. You can usually get the forms at the county seat (or local stationary store) and make the filing yourself. In the case of residential properties in NJ you have to send a "heads up" in the form of a Notice of Intent to Lien. You also have a limited time to file; typically 90 days from the last time you were on site. If you're going to file, make it sooner, not later. Try starting your journey here. Good luck.

In NJ you have 90 days to complete the lein,which means you have to start the process around 40 days past due in order to comply with the law.

 

[Rewire]

Two things-
Small Claims court- You still have to collect, but it's often easier if you have a judgement in hand. (You can go after bank accounts then.)

Poisoning the well- Depending on your relationships with the everyone involved, you may damage that if you file an action. Just keep that in mind, but don't necessarily let it stop you, either.

(I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice . )

I am not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV , the hard part is deciding when to burn the bridge and when to just tough it out. This is one of the reasons we no longer work with GCs.

 

[goldstar]

I am not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV , the hard part is deciding when to burn the bridge and when to just tough it out. This is one of the reasons we no longer work with GCs.

There's another piece of good advice.

The contractor I have my contract with says they owe him still and he will pay me.

If your contract is with another contractor I don't see how you can place a lien on the house. In addition, the amount of $$ you are owed is fairly small (even if you don't think so). You'll probably find that you either have to go to small claims court to try and collect or write it off as a loss (sorry to say). However, if you do manage to get paid, run as fast as you can away from this contractor and don't take on any more work with him no matter how desperate you may become. It's small $$ he owes you today but it might be big $$ tomorrow. He's the one with the master contract. He's using you as a bank.

 

[GUNNING]

Rep worth more than $1300?

Rep worth more than $1300?

You are looking at the good will of the sub sub contractor to pay you. Sounds like a bad business decision. Anyway you can get in privity with the owner? Send the owner a bill, it might get results. It will definitely open up a conversation. Get a lawyers opinion. Look up the statutes on contracting and collections. Don't do this again and as a penalty write off the debt. You are only as good as your last sale and your reputation is destroyed on one notable bad event. Its the ATA boy rule. You get points for every ATA boy but one all crud wipes out all the ATA boys. What is your reputation worth to you?

 

[petersonra]

I think the answers to your questions are going to be dependent on the laws where the project is located, and an attorney is probably the best source of information.

while generally good advice, the amount of money in question makes having a lawyer deal with it problematic.

as a general rule, you really should have a company attorney that you have sat down with up front to discuss this kind of thing, along with how your company should be structured and insured to limit your personal liabilities.

if you had an attorney on retainer, you could call him or her and ask this kind of question.

it sounds to me like one of your problems is doing stuff without having it in writing. there is absolutely no excuse for not putting it in writing. an email is easy to write. send the guy that approved the CO verbally outlining what was agreed to and ask him to confirm it by return email. it is not quite as good as a signed in ink contract but the guy cannot come back later and claim the deal was something other than what he agreed to by email.

 

[bradleyelectric]

I would like to have a reputation as someone that expects to be paid as opposed to someone that you dont have to pay.

 

[kwired]

while generally good advice, the amount of money in question makes having a lawyer deal with it problematic.

as a general rule, you really should have a company attorney that you have sat down with up front to discuss this kind of thing, along with how your company should be structured and insured to limit your personal liabilities.

if you had an attorney on retainer, you could call him or her and ask this kind of question.

it sounds to me like one of your problems is doing stuff without having it in writing. there is absolutely no excuse for not putting it in writing. an email is easy to write. send the guy that approved the CO verbally outlining what was agreed to and ask him to confirm it by return email. it is not quite as good as a signed in ink contract but the guy cannot come back later and claim the deal was something other than what he agreed to by email.

It is true the amount of the dispute in this case may not be worth going to an attorney for seeking collecting actions, maybe getting a little advice from an attorney may be ok but don't expect it to come free. A 15 minute conversation may be well worth what ever education you get, not only for this case but how to handle things like this in the future.

I would like to have a reputation as someone that expects to be paid as opposed to someone that you dont have to pay.

Sure doesn't hurt. If you have a reputation that clients don't have to pay there seems to be more of those type of clients that don't want to pay calling you. Good clients expect to pay for services rendered.

 

[GUNNING]

I would rather NOT do the work and not get paid

I would rather NOT do the work and not get paid

I make a value cost analysis when taking on a project. A piece of this is will I get paid and how much is going into the job and can I afford to abandon what parts have been used. I look at the experiences with the type of customer and what safeguards are in place. How much in control of the project do I have. Is the customer sane. Do I have a contract and am I in Privity with the owner. What is in writing and what is verbal. Have I met my obligations and what can I do to put pressure on to get payment. How is the job finished and closed.
Getting all the details and expectations ironed out up front will save a lot of time in the end. If there are any questions as to what is to be done will not be easy to get paid for completing. If the payment is dependent on anyone not involved in this process payment will not be forth coming.
Meet expectations within a reasonable time frame of completion and get paid. This is the formula for a successful service contract. Getting a mediator or judge to fill in the blanks is expensive. Get what you can in writting.

 

[Rewire]

We joined a prepaid legal service last January it has benefited us greatly in collecting old dept. strange how fast someone will find the money when they get a demand letter from an attorney. We also get contrct review with them so we dont make mistakes going into a deal. The great part is it is a small monthly fee as oppose to a large chunk at once so I can pick up the phone and within an hour be getting legal advice and getting action.