1/0 gec exists but connection not vis. Redo split bolt question

[wyreman]

I have a 400a main w 5 meters
Condo conversion. City inspector asks for new gec to water pipe

I find a good looking 1/0 at the meter base
Don't see it at the water entrance but the first 5 feet are drywalled

So I'll do it over
It's 20 feet of new 1/0
Going to grab the gas main and the water w 1/0

Big split bolts are expensive
Are there no clam shells with emt hubs in those big size that fit 3/4" emt?
Thx

 

[Dennis Alwon]

How would you use a split bolt? Must be irreversible in most cases.

Yes they make clamps for the situation you described. Can you sleeve the wire in PVC rather than emt?

 

[wyreman]

Interesting answers!
Here everybody runs the grounding wire back to meter
w emt and hubs that thread to emt and have a hole to receive the
Top screw from a clamshell

I can see the PVC advantage in to bondign the pipe
It is a purer sleeve

Using PVC sleeve would mean
I just have to land the wire to the clamshell
No termination (cost) at the end of the PVC
Great!
I wonder why everybody does it here in emt
I guess the emt looks more professional...
Maybe local code?

Regarding the split bolt -
is it any less permanent than a clamshell?

I just don't remember seeing a 2" clamshell w
An opening for 1/0
Must be a bigger lug that bolts to the top of the clam
Like on the emt hub

Thanks Dennis!

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Here is one and they make them for larger water pipes also.

 

[wyreman]

Open rock

Open rock

Maybe the easiest is to expose the first 5' of water pipe
I bet the connection is there
And the just lash the gas pipe to the water w #3

 

[wyreman]

=)

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Where does the #3 come from?

 

[wyreman]

It would be a bonding jumper from the gas to the established
Gec water pipe that would be proved to already be run
In 1/0 just was not visible at the first 5'

I would open the rock and if I find the 1/0 landed
Then the water is the gec and just needs bonded w #3

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I would open the rock and if I find the 1/0 landed
Then the water is the gec and just needs bonded w #3

Not for a 400 amp service-- 250.66-- are you using 250.122? :happyno: Bonding jumper is the same size as the GEC not EGC

 

[iwire]

And the just lash the gas pipe to the water w #3

Why would you bond the gas pipe to the water pipe?

250.104

(B) Other Metal Piping. If installed in, or attached to, a
building or structure, a metal piping system(s), including
gas piping, that is likely to become energized shall be
bonded to the service equipment enclosure; the grounded
conductor at the service; the grounding electrode conductor,
if of sufficient size; or to one or more grounding electrodes
used. The bonding conductor(s) or jumper(s) shall be
sized in accordance with 250.122, using the rating of the
circuit that is likely to energize the piping system(s). The
equipment grounding conductor for the circuit that is likely
to energize the piping shall be permitted to serve as the
bonding means. The points of attachment of the bonding
jumper(s) shall be accessible.

 

[wyreman]

Actually I muddied up the idea of
Water heater bonding at the individual units w smaller mains
With bonding the gas for the 400 main

And that was only needed #6 cause the distribution
Is 100a units

 

[wyreman]

Why would you bond the gas pipe to the water pipe?

Cause inspector said so

We have to bond every water heater even if it is just gas

Creates an equipotential plane =)

 

[iwire]

Cause inspector said so

Well maybe ask the inspector for the code section requiring it.

We have to bond every water heater even if it is just gas

Creates an equipotential plane =)

Equipotential plane not required for inside a building.

 

[wyreman]

http://flic.kr/s/aHsjCxAgNZ
There is one 1/0 coming from below
And it leaves in a pipe headed straight to the water entrance
An met pipe

 

[wyreman]

Well maybe ask the inspector for the code section requiring it.






Equipotential plane not required for inside a building.

Gosh I've been bonding around gas water heaters for 30 years
Even tho I thought it was dumb cause the water heater tied them all together...
And it wasnt even needed!?:slaphead:
And I'll do it again on Monday!

 

[hillbilly1]

The water heater is considered an insulated fitting (whether it is or not is debatable ) hence the bond between the hot and cold, I think it has been misunderstood though that it needs to be treated as part of the GEC. PVC is the way to go for the GEC, I think it is just a Union thing to always put it in metal conduit.

 

[wyreman]

Well maybe ask the inspector for the code section requiring it.






Equipotential plane not required for inside a building.

What is the code section for
physical protection of grounding wire
Larger than #4 solid

So I can understand the PVC use
Not likely it is a city requirement in San Francisco is it ?
It would sure save a lot of lining up and fitting to those hubs
What if inspector rejects the PVC?
thx

 

[wyreman]

The water heater is considered an insulated fitting (whether it is or not is debatable ) hence the bond between the hot and cold, I think it has been misunderstood though that it needs to be treated as part of the GEC. PVC is the way to go for the GEC, I think it is just a Union thing to always put it in metal conduit.

Yeah often they use dielectric union on all three pipes so they can remove the heater later

 

[wyreman]

The water heater is considered an insulated fitting (whether it is or not is debatable ) hence the bond between the hot and cold, I think it has been misunderstood though that it needs to be treated as part of the GEC. PVC is the way to go for the GEC, I think it is just a Union thing to always put it in metal conduit.

So the gas Pipe on the water heater has to be bonded or not?
Is it bonded with a jumper
Or grounded with the gec?

I believe it needed the same size ground as the service so gec

 

[Ponchik]

So the gas Pipe on the water heater has to be bonded or not?
Is it bonded with a jumper
Or grounded with the gec?

I believe it needed the same size ground as the service so gec

What ever circuit is likely to energize the gas pipe will have the EGC connected to the equipment, so that will take care of the gas bonding. However, each city may have their own gas bonding requirement. Ask the city inspector electrical specialist and see what they require. Also ask for a code section as well.

If you are in San Francisco then they may have their own rules.