30"

[ptonsparky]

We know we need 30" width in front of panels. Lots of room...until we put the covers on today and discovered the door design doesn't allow them to open past maybe 100? . Field engineering is in our future or we order a trim that hinges on left vs the right, if that is even possible. Dang.

 

[kwired]

Convert it into a bifold door

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I believe the door only needs to open 90? 110.26(A)(3)

 

[ptonsparky]

Yes, 90?, but the hinges are a couple inches to left. Advantage of getting the cans before the trim. Never even thought of the doors not opening a full 180. Live and learn.

 

[Smart $]

Yes, 90?, but the hinges are a couple inches to left. Advantage of getting the cans before the trim. Never even thought of the doors not opening a full 180. Live and learn.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding... if the door opens 100?, how is that in violation?

Are we talking hinged panel cover, or just the breaker-handle access door? If the former, the entire cover can be removed to allow the full 30" width, yes? If the latter, I don't believe that to be in violation, as no live parts are exposed just by opening the door.

 

[charlie b]

Are you saying that with the door only open to 100 degrees the door itself interferes with the required 30 inches of clearance? That could be a problem.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Are you saying that with the door only open to 100 degrees the door itself interferes with the required 30 inches of clearance? That could be a problem.

I don't see it that way but I have been wrong before. If the distance cleared is 30" and the door opens 90? or more then I don't see an issue. It does not state that 30" must be maintained with the door ajar

 

[charlie b]

Dennis, imagine a 22" wide panel sitting in a 60" wide space between two walls. Let's say the panel is close to the right side wall, and the door swings to the left. If the door does not swing all the way (180 degrees) to the left, then all that extra room to the left is not useful as working space. Would that not create a violation of 110.26?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Dennis, imagine a 22" wide panel sitting in a 60" wide space between two walls. Let's say the panel is close to the right side wall, and the door swings to the left. If the door does not swing all the way (180 degrees) to the left, then all that extra room to the left is not useful as working space. Would that not create a violation of 110.26?

I don't think so because the space is needed when the cover is off, IMO not when the cover is on.

 

[kwired]

Dennis, imagine a 22" wide panel sitting in a 60" wide space between two walls. Let's say the panel is close to the right side wall, and the door swings to the left. If the door does not swing all the way (180 degrees) to the left, then all that extra room to the left is not useful as working space. Would that not create a violation of 110.26?

I see what you are saying but I don't think it is a violation, especially if there are no exposed live parts when the door in question is opened. If the door in question exposed you to live parts when it was opened that could be a problem but I don't think it is addressed that clearly to call it a NEC violation either. Maybe you could call 110.26(C)(1) on that.

Last sentence of 110.26(A)(1):

Distances shall be measured from the exposed live parts or from the enclosure or opening if the live parts are enclosed.

 

[pfalcon]

Dennis, imagine a 22" wide panel sitting in a 60" wide space between two walls. Let's say the panel is close to the right side wall, and the door swings to the left. If the door does not swing all the way (180 degrees) to the left, then all that extra room to the left is not useful as working space. Would that not create a violation of 110.26?

I don't think so because the space is needed when the cover is off, IMO not when the cover is on.

On a door panel the cover doesn't come off, it only opens >90 for access. In Charlie's example the space would be measured from the hinge on the left to 30" toward the right. The right panel edge needs to be about 8" or more from the right hand wall. If your door will open 180 and there are no door mounted components then you could make it flush right. Or buy an enclosure hinged right

 

[pfalcon]

Here's a good way to express it. For a 110.26(A) Condition 1, 480v panel you should be able to place a 3' deep(1), 30" wide(2), 6.5' high(3) block of wood shoved up against the panel opening where the left or right side of the block lines up with the door hinges.

 

[kwired]

On a door panel the cover doesn't come off, it only opens >90 for access. In Charlie's example the space would be measured from the hinge on the left to 30" toward the right. The right panel edge needs to be about 8" or more from the right hand wall. If your door will open 180 and there are no door mounted components then you could make it flush right. Or buy an enclosure hinged right

Do you still feel that way after reading carefully the last sentence in 110.26(A)(1)?

There are no exposed live parts when the deadfront is installed, remove the deadfront and the questionable door is removed also.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

On a door panel the cover doesn't come off, it only opens >90 for access. In Charlie's example the space would be measured from the hinge on the left to 30" toward the right. The right panel edge needs to be about 8" or more from the right hand wall. If your door will open 180 and there are no door mounted components then you could make it flush right. Or buy an enclosure hinged right

Are we talking about a door that is not part of the panel? If so then make the hinges easily removable.

 

[charlie b]

This issue (or are we on a side-issue?) seems to hinge (sorry about that) on the question of whether you have access to live parts when the door is open to its 100 degree limit. If not, then working clearance rules are not relevant, and I agree with Dennis on this point. If opening the door does expose live parts, then the example I gave would be a violation. So does anyone have a photo of the door in question?

 

[ptonsparky]

I'll try for a picture in the morning.

I do appreciate the comments. No energized part are exposed when the door is open. It hinges on the right which puts us under the 30 inches when the door is opened to operate the breakers.

 

[Smart $]

I'll try for a picture in the morning.

I do appreciate the comments. No energized part are exposed when the door is open. It hinges on the right which puts us under the 30 inches when the door is opened to operate the breakers.

As I said earlier, if it is just the breaker-handle access door, the door falls under the 90? requirement, but not the 30" workiing clearance requirement, where no live parts are exposed just by opening the door.

 

[pfalcon]

Do you still feel that way after reading carefully the last sentence in 110.26(A)(1)?

There are no exposed live parts when the deadfront is installed, remove the deadfront and the questionable door is removed also.

Doors with hinges as Charlie expressed. The door is not removeable.

... or from the enclosure or opening if the live parts are enclosed.

Absolutely I feel that way. The measurement is from the front of the enclosure.

 

[pfalcon]

Are we talking about a door that is not part of the panel? If so then make the hinges easily removable.

Typically, if it's easily removable then it's a cover not a door. You measure the working space of a covered enclosure after removing the cover completely. You measure the working space of a door enclosure with the door fully open.

 

[pfalcon]

As I said earlier, if it is just the breaker-handle access door, the door falls under the 90? requirement, but not the 30" workiing clearance requirement, where no live parts are exposed just by opening the door.

I don't believe the 90 applies to operating that sort of door. It applies when you remove the whole cover for service.