Hurricane Sandy

[andyselec@aol.com]

I've been wondering this for a long time now. How come during storms POCO doesn't just "pull the Plug " on the power grid ? Wouldn't it make restoration alot faster because all they would have to do is resplice (or replace) wires and not have to replace blown transformers?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Yeah but they would have a lot of angry customers. Can you imagine a black out, esp. in Durham, crime would be rampant. You do not want an entire city dark esp. if it didn't have to be. At what point do you decide to pull the plug. Have you seen what happens in NYC when their is a black out?

 

[masterinbama]

It's easier, cheaper and faster to allow portions to go down and isolate them, than it is to try and figure out what is damaged across the grid before re energizing.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

It's easier, cheaper and faster to allow portions to go down and isolate them, than it is to try and figure out what is damaged across the grid before re energizing.

Excellent point

 

[iwire]

It's easier, cheaper and faster to allow portions to go down and isolate them, than it is to try and figure out what is damaged across the grid before re energizing.

I agree, but also agree with Dennis, the POCO is not going to shut down large areas 'just in case' without out a very clear and apparent reason, people would flip out.

 

[Besoeker]

I agree, but also agree with Dennis, the POCO is not going to shut down large areas 'just in case' without out a very clear and apparent reason, people would flip out.

Not to mention the loss of revenue for the POCOs

 

[Cavie]

Think of the lawsuits after it was over. "If you hadden't.............. They should be allowed to declare marshal law and shut it down but we know that ain't gonna happen. I'll bet the 80 people who's houses burnt down in NY are wishing the power was shut off.

 

[K8MHZ]

Think of the lawsuits after it was over. "If you hadden't.............. They should be allowed to declare marshal law and shut it down but we know that ain't gonna happen. I'll bet the 80 people who's houses burnt down in NY are wishing the power was shut off.

How do you know the fire wasn't caused by natural gas or a kerosene space heater? Or a propane torch or an oil lamp. Electricity isn't the only thing that makes fires.

Do you realize how many MORE fires there would be if the POCO shut the entire grid down? POCO customers are far more dangerous than the POCO's grid.

 

[ptonsparky]

Yeah but they would have a lot of angry customers. Can you imagine a black out, esp. in Durham, crime would be rampant. You do not want an entire city dark esp. if it didn't have to be. At what point do you decide to pull the plug. Have you seen what happens in NYC when their is a black out?

IIRC the birthrate jumped drastically in that area back in the, what, late 60s?

 

[n1ist]

Actually, they did shut down parts of lower Manhattan yesterday before the flooding.

 

[GerryB]

Yeah but they would have a lot of angry customers. Can you imagine a black out, esp. in Durham, crime would be rampant. You do not want an entire city dark esp. if it didn't have to be. At what point do you decide to pull the plug. Have you seen what happens in NYC when their is a black out?

We are about to.

 

[ceb58]

What gets me is back in the summer they had isolated tornadoes in eastern NC. Those people were with out power for 2 days while the poco waited for it to be declared a disaster area before they would go to work so they would be reimbursed by the feds. and not go into their pocket.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I have 3 cousins who don't know if there homes are still there at Breezy Point. They fix up these old summer cottages and winterized them many years ago but 60+ homes have been lost to fire and they can't get there.

 

[mtnelectrical]

Now, IF the POCO turns off the power before the flooding and later water subsides. Aren't the wires that were under water supposed to be replaced, before energize them again?

 

[mtnelectrical]

I am not refering to the Poco wires but the customer's wires.

 

[zbang]

Aren't the wires that were under water supposed to be replaced, before energize them again?

Yes, and I'd do that, but how many people are going to spring the $$ if insurance doesn't pay.

NPR did a nice bit about cleaning the NYC subway today. Mentioned that water itself isn't a problem, salt is the problem. And they'll have to do a lot of cleaning and rinsing.

 

[kwired]

Now, IF the POCO turns off the power before the flooding and later water subsides. Aren't the wires that were under water supposed to be replaced, before energize them again?

I am not refering to the Poco wires but the customer's wires.

I doubt POCO is going to wait for all of customer wiring to be repaired before restoring the distribution system.

 

[steve66]

Actually, they did shut down parts of lower Manhattan yesterday before the flooding.

Yes, they did shut off power to at least 3 substations according to this article on weather.com:

http://www.weather.com/news/weather-hurricanes/coned-nyc-utility-prepped-big-storm-20121031

One substation was built to withstand a storm surge of 12.5 feet, which seemed pretty good since the previous record was 11' which happend way back in 1811. But Sandy pushed the surge to 14', 3 feet above the previous record. So nobody thought they would have to pull the plug on that station.

 

[mtnelectrical]

I doubt POCO is going to wait for all of customer wiring to be repaired before restoring the distribution system.

Me too, but most probably when they know that some houses were severe flooded the service wires are disconnected from the transformers.

 

[mtnelectrical]

Yes, and I'd do that, but how many people are going to spring the $$ if insurance doesn't pay.

NPR did a nice bit about cleaning the NYC subway today. Mentioned that water itself isn't a problem, salt is the problem. And they'll have to do a lot of cleaning and rinsing.

I don't think it is matter of willing or not. According with this NEMA publication http://www.nema.org/Standards/Pages/Evaluating-Water-Damaged-Electrical-Equipment.aspx


4.6 Wire, Cable and Flexible Cords
When any wire or cable product is exposed to water, any metallic component (such as the conductor,metallic shield, or armor) is subject to corrosion that can damage the component itself and/or cause termination failures. If water remains in medium voltage cable, it could accelerate insulation deterioration, causing premature failure. Wire and cable listed for only dry locations may become a shock hazard when energized after being exposed to water.
Any recommendations for reconditioning wire and cable in Section 1.0 are based on the assumption
that the water contains no high concentrations of chemicals, oils, etc. If it is suspected that the water has unusual contaminants, such as may be found in some floodwater, the manufacturer should be consulted before any decision is made to continue using any wire or cable products.