Anyone Else Sick of This?

[jmellc]

I had another guy say the other day my price was too high. I understand that from people who really don't have much. I don't love it, but I have to say no to things too, as I don't have any money nowadays either.

A man in one of the wealthiest old money neighborhoods in town had me price a job. Power to a new gazebo behind his pool. Ceiling fan, switch & receptacle. I would have to feed from a pole about 30 some feet away that has an existing GFI recep. Would have to cut the feeder conduit, set a j box, refeed recep. Down from j box to just above ground level, 5 feet across to brick wall. Strap to wall, turn 2 90's around corners, go 10-15 feet to adjoining chain link fence. Another 10-15 feet along fence, using driven struts to secure conduit. Turn LB through fence, under gazebo, 90 up through wall plate, offset to recep box. up from there, offset around a bracket, drill a 2x4, offset again to switch box. Up from there, back to back 45's to follow a bracket, across, kick, LB & angle up along roof rafter to bell box. Set bell box flush with a pt 5/4 board, set 10-32 rods down through it for fan support.

I figured a full day's work for 2 men. Not rocket science but a lot of work. Getting to other side of fence means walking a long distance to a gate & circling back, working 2 sides of a fence & tight spaces between fence & gazebo. Lots of heating & bending, driving struts, etc. I figured $995 and he said too much he couldn't do it. I told him price was good until end of year if he changed his mind. He has a mansion of a house, several high dollar cars, a pool, 2 gazebos, etc.

A man approached me in a parking lot that I thought looked familiar. Told me about a job on a duplex he needed done. Sounded very similar to another one I had priced over a year ago. Got his info and realized later he was the same guy. Another electrician had referred him to me. I met him on site, looked it over & next day delivered a quote to his wife & never heard back from him. I'm looking for my original quote. I will add 10% & call him with a price, telling him I priced it before & costs have gone up since then. He's not quite as flamboyant as the man above, but does have fairly expensive cars out front. He said he'd had quotes before but they were too high.

I WILL NOT cut prices for people like this. I may have to shut down but I will not be picked to death by people who freely spend on luxury items then want to beat me down. Either of these guys could buy a lesser car, pay me for my work & have money left over. I've had the same battle with people riding up on golf carts to greet me, or $7,000 Subaru yard vehicles. I don't envy people those luxuries, I'm glad someone can afford them. But they should not expect me to finance them. Also, I do not overprice for their deep pockets either. I just don't stretch to give them a break as I might do for a person of lesser means.

 

[Fulthrotl]

I had another guy say the other day my price was too high. I understand that from
people who really don't have much. I don't love it, but I have to say no to things too,
as I don't have any money nowadays either.

my experience has been that when i have a 'tude about something,
i tend to attract people who give me a chance to get wrapped about
it.

the only common denominator in these situations you've been running
into is you.... and you seem to have a chip on your shoulder about
getting chiseled down on your pricing.... i'm qualified to observe that
in you, 'cause i tend to do the same thing, or get in a snit that i'm not
gonna get paid for something i do.

your 'tude about affluent people seems to mirror my own to a greater
extent, and it probably isn't serving you any more than mine did me.
one good thing about people with money, is that they actually can pay
for something. not saying they will, but they can.

working for people who can't pay for the work is frustrating as well.

so, if we get pissed at the people who can pay for it, and the ones
that can't pay for it.... that doesn't leave a lot of people left.

what i did that seems to be the only thing different, that has changed
enormously how much is coming in the door, is i started donating half
a day a week to charity.

and i quit being afraid that there wasn't enough for me. there is enough
for me. there is enough for you, as well.

pick something you can do that you might like to do. find someone
who needs a hand doing it... i went over sunday and put some outlets
in for some newleyweds who just bought a condo, and are running on fumes,
and can't afford to fix them otherwise.... 5 GFCI's, 3 in the kitchen, two in
the baths, and she asked me how much she owed me for them, and i said
"enjoy your house, and call me when you do the kitchen remodel in two years".

if they call, great, if they don't, still ok..... today, i go over to a commercial
building to do what i thought was give someone a price on power for two
15 ton package units, and instead, he says "no, we are putting them in saturday,
just send me a bill for what it costs. i know your price will be fair".

then a customer calls who's had budget constraints put on him and can't do much
at the moment, but turns out he needs a 225 amp panel by next week.......

the only thing that i'm doing different, is giving away half a day a week....

try it... whatchoo got to lose?

 

[jmellc]

Thanks, but I already do plenty of that. I do free or gently priced work for destitute friends. I am rounding up quality "gently used" equipment to rewire a guy's house that can't afford it. Will do it at cost because he needs it. I get paid for some of the work I do at my church and I donate some of it.

No, I don't have a chip on my shoulder. I am just tired of working harder than ever before for less money. Tired of going out & looking over projects, spending lots of time answering "how this", "why that", "can't you do this", "why does it cost so much", 'do you really have to use those expensive arc fault breakers", etc. Spend a day getting prices & doing a quote then get "well, I don't know, it's a lot of money".

As I said, they have money for their expensive toys. I don't envy them for it but I'm tired of being the first place they need to save money when they spend so much of it elsewhere.

 

[mjf]

I often agree with the complaining customer!!

Agree that it's really a shame how much everything costs nowadays.

As a matter of fact, between the cost of the permit from the town, the materials, the electrical inspection fee, Uncle Sam, van insurance, liability insurance, workmans comp, and paying my helper......... I may not have even charged you enough to earn myself a days pay!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jmellc]

I often agree with the complaining customer!!

Agree that it's really a shame how much everything costs nowadays.

As a matter of fact, between the cost of the permit from the town, the materials, the electrical inspection fee, Uncle Sam, van insurance, liability insurance, workmans comp, and paying my helper......... I may not have even charged you enough to earn myself a days pay!!!!!!!!!!

We are on the same page for sure. As I tell customers, I am shocked at prices I pay for work too.

I might still have a chance at the one job if he doesn't get a leaf raker or painter to price it.

 

[stevenje]

I am just tired of working harder than ever before for less money.

Welcome to the "new" economy. Don't worry, things will change. I am not sure in which direction, but they will change.

 

[petersonra]

Welcome to the "new" economy. Don't worry, things will change. I am not sure in which direction, but they will change.

It is certainly a different economy out there today. I don't know where it is headed either but it seems likely that it will break out one way or the other at some point.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Thanks, but I already do plenty of that. I do free or gently priced work for destitute friends. I am rounding up quality "gently used" equipment to rewire a guy's house that can't afford it. Will do it at cost because he needs it. I get paid for some of the work I do at my church and I donate some of it.

No, I don't have a chip on my shoulder. I am just tired of working harder than ever before for less money. Tired of going out & looking over projects, spending lots of time answering "how this", "why that", "can't you do this", "why does it cost so much", 'do you really have to use those expensive arc fault breakers", etc. Spend a day getting prices & doing a quote then get "well, I don't know, it's a lot of money".

As I said, they have money for their expensive toys. I don't envy them for it but I'm tired of being the first place they need to save money when they spend so much of it elsewhere.

You gotta be careful doing driveway pricing or thinking that because they have a lot of stuff means that they have a lot of money. Usually the bank owns most of that stuff. You know stuff is expensive, I'm an electician and it would be expensive for me to do my own service change. Those of us that took pay cuts or those that lost their jobs or have had to take jobs far below their normal pay scale, don't have the ready cash that we had 10 years ago. Don't blame the customer, blame the times.

 

[renosteinke]

I remember the time I was 'called on the carpet' because someone had formed an opinion as to my motives. My response was: I really hate it when folks try to do my thinking for me!

There's the rub. I think we spend too much time trying to imagine what the other guy is thinking.

Another example: there's an ad on the radio, some outfit claiming to help folks with bad credit. The ad slags their competition, claiming that the 'other guys' make lots of money for the credit card companies. I say: so what? If I get what I want, I care not that the other guy made money. Indeed, I want the other guy to be happy, and to stay in business.

So many threads here, where we worry about what the other guy is up to. Such worries are a side road that comes to a dead end; they will lead you nowhere.

Instead, we need to return to basics.

Basic #1 for a job is: what will people pay for it?

Basic #2 is: Can I afford to do the job for that price?

Probably the hardest part is determining what the 'going rate' is. It's far too easy to end up comparing apples to oranges. The best you can do is figure out your costs. Only then can you see what can be cut or improved on later.

It's also a matter of communicating with the customer. They need to know what is involved in your plan. Probably the biggest reason tradesmen hate residential work is because the customers have unrealistic price expectations. Well, maybe we're partly to blame for that.

We're to blame every time we give a quote that says only something like "Service change: $1800." Here's where I agree with Mike Holmes: we need to spell out, in detail, exactly what we will do. Yes, only a total price - but tell the customer what's involved, down to the brands of the equipment.

If you do that, chances are the customer's first response will be "wow! I had no idea so much was involved!" That is far better than the usual first response of 'that's too much money.'

As Holmes points out, if it's still 'too much,' the customer can either wait - or you can figure out together what they can do without.

You can't do that if your quote is only a naked price. If all you give them is a price, then price shopping is all the customer can do. We don't want them going down that road.

Otherwise, your price is your price. When you know your expenses, you will not be deflected by the objections to the pricing. There's no virtue in having a race to the bottom - and some folks are just, well, their expectations are unrealistic.

Best example? I have a neighbor who thinks he's going to buy the house down the street. We have houses here selling for about $10K (which is pretty hard to beat), but this guy seriously thinks the price will drop to $1K. With the typical tenant around here paying $7500/year in renting an apartment, I would say his expectations are unrealistic.

Such customers have a choice: adjust expectations, or do without.

After all, the neighbor missed out already - when I bought my place for $6K.

 

[kwired]

You gotta be careful doing driveway pricing or thinking that because they have a lot of stuff means that they have a lot of money. Usually the bank owns most of that stuff. You know stuff is expensive, I'm an electician and it would be expensive for me to do my own service change. Those of us that took pay cuts or those that lost their jobs or have had to take jobs far below their normal pay scale, don't have the ready cash that we had 10 years ago. Don't blame the customer, blame the times.

I understand they may have a nice house but are going through hard times, been there myself. But when times are hard I wasn't buying hot tubs, having accessory buildings built, installing swimming pools, etc.

Real issue is people do not always know what it takes to power something up. All the average Joe thinks you need for almost anything is a place to plug it in, and some lightweight cord. That and cost of copper and steel is much more than it was just 10 years ago, so a lot of materials alone are double, triple, even quadruple what they were not too long ago.

 

[electricblue]

You can't close all your calls. That is the one you don't want. He is probably very picky and would drive you nuts with things. I recently picked up Ellen Rhor's books and got pissed off. I started charging more and feel better. What if you told that guy he might not be able to afford your quality? And yes I am sick of those type off calls.

 

[readydave8]

Well jmelc, you're right by not trying to compete by being lowest price, low bidder may have to cut some corners on the installation & lower his lifestyle to survive. And there's always a cheaper bid, I think if I bid zero on some jobs someone else would offer to pay for the privilege of doing the work.

So you have to offer something that the competition is not, a few years ago it was as simple as being the only electrician to return phone calls promptly, that's not enough anymore. I don't know the answer, I barely know enough to know what question to ask. But being a great electrician won't help past a certain point, selling and marketing are what you need to look into. So do I.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Well jmelc, you're right by not trying to compete by being lowest price, low bidder may have to cut some corners on the installation & lower his lifestyle to survive. And there's always a cheaper bid, I think if I bid zero on some jobs someone else would offer to pay for the privilege of doing the work.

So you have to offer something that the competition is not, a few years ago it was as simple as being the only electrician to return phone calls promptly, that's not enough anymore. I don't know the answer, I barely know enough to know what question to ask. But being a great electrician won't help past a certain point, selling and marketing are what you need to look into. So do I.

I agree with dave, I can't beleive how much work I used to get after being told that I was the only one that actually called them back. And some of the best electricians I know almost went bankrupt during this last "cycle".

I said in an earlier post, times are hard and people are cutting back. People aren't just putting a bunch of can lights in because the wife saw them in some magazine, you're going over because a couple don't work and if they could figure out how they wouldn't call you at all. You're a necessary evil right now, like gas for the car, rent and utility bills.

 

[K8MHZ]

People aren't just putting a bunch of can lights in because the wife saw them in some magazine, you're going over because a couple don't work and if they could figure out how they wouldn't call you at all. You're a necessary evil right now, like gas for the car, rent and utility bills.

That right there is a classic!

 

[KVA]

I just got beat down big time on my price for a job starting tomorrow. 12 recessed lights, 2 hanging fixtures, 2 ceiling fans, 4 switch legs in 4 different rooms. Its all remodel work and the bulk is on the first floor with no access. The easiest part will be the 2 ceiling fans in the upstairs bedrooms because of the attic.

They gave me all the typical stories "i have a bunch of other guys offering this price and that" so we settled on a price that was dirt ass cheap but...

they were already asking me for prices for the next projects and that will be time for me to make my money:thumbsup: I will give a high price and let them beat me down to what i would normally charge.

You get yourself in the door and work for free for the first job then nail the hell out of them with pricing the next job. I do this because they can see how good of a job you do with the first job so whatever price you give on the next job they usually accept without hesitation.

 

[drspec]

So, you charge enough to maybe pay the bills and hope to make it up on the next job by charging your normal or slightly higher than normal rate?
Makes perfect sense to me.

:roll:

 

[KVA]

So, you charge enough to maybe pay the bills and hope to make it up on the next job by charging your normal or slightly higher than normal rate?
Makes perfect sense to me.

:roll:

I only do this when i hit a dry spot. Everyone on this board as worked dirt cheap they just won't admit it. I don't care who you are if you are slow you are not going to walk from a job.

 

[drspec]

I know I have walked away.

I can sit at home and not make money.

 

[KVA]

I know I have walked away.

I can sit at home and not make money.

So you make enough every week 52 weeks out of the year without any slow times? Or do you live with parents and dont have any bills to pay?:lol:

 

[drspec]

I make enough to pay the bills and keep a few employees busy. If there is not enough work coming in, then we just work short days. No sense in working if you're just doing it for free.