Is it Time to Mandate a Transfer Switch?

[renosteinke]

For all new construction, for all service changes?

Every storm sees electrical sites get flooded with 'how do I hook up a generator' questions.

Then there are those wanting to toy with wind or solar power, or massive UPS battery banks.

All of these secondary sources involve having a transfer switch.

If not seen as a requirement, should we look to include some sort of transfer switch as a design choice- using the 'might be usefu, can't hurt' principle?

 

[K8MHZ]

For all new construction, for all service changes?

Every storm sees electrical sites get flooded with 'how do I hook up a generator' questions.

Then there are those wanting to toy with wind or solar power, or massive UPS battery banks.

All of these secondary sources involve having a transfer switch.

If not seen as a requirement, should we look to include some sort of transfer switch as a design choice- using the 'might be usefu, can't hurt' principle?

As a customer, what if I don't need one, why should I be forced to have one? As an electrician I really don't want to be the whipping boy for bureaucracy when the customer gets all hissy about having to pay for one that they don't need.

Where I live, all I need is a pitcher pump and I have all my needs covered with no POCO electricity. The pitcher pump will be installed next year. So long as I have NG and a vehicle to charge 12 volt batteries, I don't need the POCO, and if it's cold out, I wouldn't even need the 12 volt system as that is for 12 volt refrigeration.

As a design choice, I agree. Trying to find a place for one after the structure is finished can be a pain. But it should not a requirement.

 

[ron]

Then there are those wanting to toy with wind or solar power, or massive UPS battery banks.

All of these secondary sources involve having a transfer switch.

No transfer switch needed from these applications at the service.

 

[ptonsparky]

Some of back feed breaker arrangements available from mfgs as an option are reasonably priced. Just include in them. Unless you are looking at low bid projects all the time.

 

[gadfly56]

As a customer, what if I don't need one, why should I be forced to have one? As an electrician I really don't want to be the whipping boy for bureaucracy when the customer gets all hissy about having to pay for one that they don't need.

Where I live, all I need is a pitcher pump and I have all my needs covered with no POCO electricity. The pitcher pump will be installed next year. So long as I have NG and a vehicle to charge 12 volt batteries, I don't need the POCO, and if it's cold out, I wouldn't even need the 12 volt system as that is for 12 volt refrigeration.

As a design choice, I agree. Trying to find a place for one after the structure is finished can be a pain. But it should not a requirement.

Feel that way about seat belts, too? Maybe GFCI's in the bathroom should be optional? Look, I get it, it's one more nanny state mandate, but sometimes public policy should take precedence. Maybe you don't need them in Arizona, but they'd sure be a good idea in Florida, Mississippi, and Louisianna. I doubt anyone in New Jersey right now would complain about having a little plug-n'-go load center for keeping the food cold and the house warm and not worrying about if you're going to fry something.

In perspective, you're probably going to use the transfer switch more often than your homeowner's insurance policy, and it won't cost more that a single year's premium as a retrofit and a whole lot less in new construction. New home construction in NJ runs probably about $300K for about 2,000 sqft. If you were wiring that 1-1/2 bath 3 bedroom, how much more would you charge for the transfer switch?

 

[iwire]

Feel that way about seat belts, too? Maybe GFCI's in the bathroom should be optional?

You gotta be kidding.

Comparing the need for transfer switch with seat belts and GFCIs?

Sorry not even close.

 

[hillbilly1]

Some places mandate outlets for electric car chargers.

 

[gadfly56]

You gotta be kidding.

Comparing the need for transfer switch with seat belts and GFCIs?

Sorry not even close.

Consider annual highway fatalities in the US, now about 32,000 per annum. Say seat belts save 50% of the lives that would otherwise be lost, so you're looking at 32,000 per annum. Putting aside the relative value of a life saved, consider the following: In NJ 2.5 million people were (and many still are) without power, representing maybe 1.0 million households. If 10% of those households had means to easily and safely hook up portable power, the lives of 250,000 people would have been positively affected.

My son has asthma and uses a nebulizer. Even the police and fire stations were down for a while. Cell service out, land line phones down. If he'd had an acute attack, we might have been if for a rough go. If the house already had a transfer switch installed, buying a portable generator would have been an automatic. As it was, not so much, but now lesson learned.

 

[Hv&Lv]

Some places mandate outlets for electric car chargers.

In the US? I know some places in Canada do.

 

[hillbilly1]

In the US? I know some places in Canada do.

I have heard in California they do, maybe some of our guys out there could chime in if its in their area.

 

[kwired]

So if a transfer switch becomes a requirement, just what exactly is going to be required? 30, 60, 100 amps capability, full service capability? Do we need a minimum lighting, and specific outlets being standby capable as a requirement?

If we have a required transfer switch, we still have to connect a generator to it or it will not transfer anything. For portable generators that usually means cord and plug connections to connect to the generator. What configuration of cord connectors should be necessary? One size fits all? Not all that simple.

If we have a required transfer switch, wouldn't the next step be to require having a generator? Otherwise the switch is somewhat useless.


Every time there is a disaster with widespread power outages there are warnings about seeking a professional to connect a portable generator to your homes wiring system. Some people listen, some don't. When the storm was approaching, I'm guessing they were suggesting that people (especially in certain areas) evacuate. Again some listen, some don't.

If you want to buy a generator to keep your refrigerator running, and maybe run some portable lights and other portable appliances, all you need to do is plug them in to the receptacle on the generator. No transfer switch needed.

 

[kwired]

Some places mandate outlets for electric car chargers.

How does that work? I know little about these at this time, but from what I have read most can vary from a low rate charger that will plug into a common 5-15 receptacle to high rate chargers that will operate on higher amp circuits or even on three phase circuits - all for the same car.

Next comes where to put the outlet(s). Single family dwelling with garage - may seem obvious. I do know people that have a full garage and don't park in the garage. Multifamily dwellings - could get real complicated. Especially when someone decides to plug their car into an outlet they do not pay for energy charges on. It likely will be a problem if there becomes more electric cars.

 

[renosteinke]

I'm glad we're having the discussion

For point of clarity, I believe Canada calls for a receptacle to power the car's block heater - somewhat different that a 'car charger.'

I was at the 'box store' Saturday, looking at leaf mulchers, when I noticed a guy looking at the generators. He and I had a very nice chat. Without getting bogged down in the details, it seems he was looking to replace the portable genny he had with another portable. It seems he had bought the first three years ago, when an ice storm had left us without power for weeks. Now, with all the news coverage of Storm Sandy, he found the old genny no longer worked.

That's what I was imagining when I floated this 'design' element: the hordes of folks who never plan on having a generator .... but let a storm hit and it's off the the box store to buy one. Then they get home and it's "how do we tie this in." I see far too many folks out there telling you to rig a 'suicide cord' to the dryer outlet - then hide the genny in the (closed) garage so the noise doesn't attract thieves.

 

[kwired]

I'm glad we're having the discussion

For point of clarity, I believe Canada calls for a receptacle to power the car's block heater - somewhat different that a 'car charger.'

I was at the 'box store' Saturday, looking at leaf mulchers, when I noticed a guy looking at the generators. He and I had a very nice chat. Without getting bogged down in the details, it seems he was looking to replace the portable genny he had with another portable. It seems he had bought the first three years ago, when an ice storm had left us without power for weeks. Now, with all the news coverage of Storm Sandy, he found the old genny no longer worked.

That's what I was imagining when I floated this 'design' element: the hordes of folks who never plan on having a generator .... but let a storm hit and it's off the the box store to buy one. Then they get home and it's "how do we tie this in." I see far too many folks out there telling you to rig a 'suicide cord' to the dryer outlet - then hide the genny in the (closed) garage so the noise doesn't attract thieves.

It is possible his generator simply lost all residual magnetism. Apply voltage to excitation field and it will restore residual magnetism. Running it at least once a year, maybe even at least every six months would help prevent this from happening.