So, it is ok with you of your employer tells you he is going to pay you 30% less than what you agreed to be paid because he thinks the job he is having you do isn't worth paying you your full wage? I don't get it. Who decides what any given job is worth? The employer? That is not a place I want to be. I can see it now. " Oh yeah, by the way, I know I said I would pay you $30/hr plus bennies but we only have $20/hr work on the schedule for now, and you can forget about any benefits untill we get some $30/hr jobs again." NO THANKS! My contract says what I will pay/earn every hour for 40 plus o.t. for after hours work. It doesn't matter if he/I am running 4" rigid or 1/2" emt. By the way, union scale is only a minimum, It is not unheard of for an employer to pay extra for difficult tasks.
service work and pay
- Thread starter JJWalecka
- Start date
- Status
So, it is ok with you of your employer tells you he is going to pay you 30% less than what you agreed to be paid because he thinks the job he is having you do isn't worth paying you your full wage? I don't get it. Who decides what any given job is worth? The employer? That is not a place I want to be. I can see it now. " Oh yeah, by the way, I know I said I would pay you $30/hr plus bennies but we only have $20/hr work on the schedule for now, and you can forget about any benefits untill we get some $30/hr jobs again." NO THANKS! My contract says what I will pay/earn every hour for 40 plus o.t. for after hours work. It doesn't matter if he/I am running 4" rigid or 1/2" emt. By the way, union scale is only a minimum, It is not unheard of for an employer to pay extra for difficult tasks.
hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
That is a misconception that is pushed by the Unions, it is NOT your job, it is the employers job, you do not own the job. The employer does. They decide what the job is worth, if you feel like you can get more for the same job, you are free to go to work for another company willing to pay you more for it.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
I think if an employee is going to be paid a different rate for travel than for working time then it needs to be consistent and he should be paid the same rate(s) all week and not just on Saturday because the employer wants to be cheap. Once 40 hours has been reached, overtime kicks in for both rates. JMO. You want to stiff your employees on this minor thing, they will stiff you, pay them what they work for and they will reward you with respect and loyalty, rip them off and they will rip you off.
My point exactly Sat, not getting overtime or an hourly rate for that matter doesn't always mean the employee is getting screwed.
Of course that isn't ok, if thats what you think I said then I think you mis-comprehended my post. In a split rate pay system both employer and employee agree on the rates and responsibilities before employment.
It isn't for everyone but some appreciate the opportunity to earn more.
I don't think you can see it, this isn't how it works at all. This pay structure isn't really meant for run of the mill production level electricians that are running 4" rigid or 1/2" EMT but rather project managers, technicians and those with more customer interaction responsibilities. The split rate pay becomes a very functional incentive.
Benefits are an entirely different topic in a split pay system one has nothing to do with the other. Chances are tho that the employee in the split pay is a key employee and probably has a better benefit package as an additional perk but not at all always the case.
I agree, what ever your structure is it should be spelled out clearly as policy and consistently applied. If you pay overtime it should be at the 41st (or 9th) hour either travel or straight or whatever task rate applies during that 41st hour.
Huh??? I don't understand. Your post does not make any sense. The question here is pay rate per hour. As a hired employee, I have the right to earn what I agreed to when hired. You are sadly mis-informed about union vs. non-union. I have worked both sides of the fence. It should not matter. You pay me what we agreed on or I walk. Simple as that. That is all the union is for, that is why it is called "union representation". The union (as a group) makes an agreement (contract) with the employers (as a group) what I will earn per hour. That is it. If you don't like it, you don't have to hire union workers. It is not any more complicated than that. Electricians are electricians, union or not, they should be treated as skilled tradesmen/women. Not like part time, unskilled labor. If you earn a reputation of cheating employees out of the pay you promised them when hired, good luck finding decent help. Nobody said employees "own the job", they are simply employees. The point is nobody wants to go to work every morning not knowing what they will be paid. That is stupidity. Where does it stop? Some cheap owner will say "you will be paid $30/hr while actually pulling wire. You will be paid $10/hr while gathering materials for the task, filling out safety meetings, setting up for the wire pull, pulling in the rope, attaching the head, cleaning up your tools at the end of the day." Yeah, right. Are you telling me, if your employer told you he has some $9/hr work for you to do for the next 4 weeks, even though you were hired a an electrician at $30/hr, you would roll over and say "ok, great! I sure hope we get some more of that $30/hr work soon so I can pay my mortgage and feed my kids next month".
Electrogrunt
Member
- Location
- Oakland,CA
Although this was not an ad for service work, it was posted by an electrical contractor online, and demanded something to the effect that; unless you are willing to layout the job, and do cleanup on your time, don't apply. All the rest was the usual clatter of being a self starting team player, who better not be calling the boss about the job, etc. I almost responded, and asked how much I had to pay to work for a really, really great boss and employer such as himself. The reality is that if an employer seeks good help, and pays a reasonable rate, and is approachable by his employees, that part of his business should do well.
hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
From your post, you were complaining about the variable rate, as long as that is known going in, it's the employers right, as for Union contracts, it will be known going in because of the contract terms. Illegally change the terms of the contract, then let me know how that works out for you! From the sounds of the op, this is not a contract job, and the employer probably can't keep good help due to its policies. That's the free market. The employee can change jobs if there's a better deal out there.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Outside of union or PW jobs It is not your right to receive a certain wage, your employer can reduce it at any time with notification.
You do have a right to quit if you do not like the reduction.
Fulthrotl
~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
- Occupation
- E
there are federal labor laws that govern all of us, and state laws that vary.
and there are negotiated contracts, that modify that further.
and in the absence of a signed contract, either side can modify the agreement
BEFORE THE WORK IS DONE.
i've had the BS about, "we have work on this job, but there isn't any money for overtime".
in CA, anything over 8 hours in a day is time and a half. state law.
is that law observed? not if you are stupid enough to accept straight time pay
past 8 hours.
many of us here have seen all sides of the equation... union, non union, and contractor.
i have an interesting situation unfolding with regards to all three, that i'll post on next
week after it unfolds a bit more....
collective or uncollected labor aside, the only one who can adequately represent you,
and your interests, is you. most of the agreements made in the electrical industry
are laughable in anything resembling a professional environment.
we can give you 60 hours a week, but no overtime pay.... 300 man shop in AZ
we need 200 more electricians than we have, but refuse to pay over $20 per hour..... 300 man shop in AZ
we can't pay OT on this one.... shop blew the bid.... 250 man shop in CA
we don't pay OT as a company policy..... 50 man shop in CA
you are salaried, DO NOT keep a log of the hours you work..... 400 man shop in CO
all these statements violate state and federal labor laws, and i've heard them from
the mouths of RMO's of the corporations.
and electricians accept this. my conclusion is that many electricians are pretty dumb.
I agree completely. However my pay rate is based on my knowledge and education in the trade, not how much money the employer has in the job. I am a skilled tradesman with 20+ yrs of experience and a masters license. I should be compensated based on those credentials, regardless of the task I am assigned to do, not the employers shoestring budget. I suppose that is why I was with my most recent employer for 13+ yrs. He regularly hands out 20 and even 30 yrs o service awards. He knows how to take care of his guys. And as a result they take care of him. I understand those opportunity a are not always available to ones seeking employment. I do believe everyone should be looking out for his best interest when it comes to pay, safety and working conditions. Don't under estimate what you are worth just because the employer under bid a job and wants to pass the loss down to the workers on the job.
PEDRO ESCOVILLA
Senior Member
- Location
- south texas
the way i work, when i'm on the clock, i'm on the clock, the rate you and i agreed to is agreed for all time on the clock. if anybody tried to "short "me for travel time while going from job to job for their business, i'd be gone. when a guy charges 65/hr and up for electrician, plus a daily number for the truck ( i know how this stuff works) plus "show up minimum charge" before the service charge clock starts ticking, as long as i'm working as best i can, doing my absolute best for the business and the customer, he's getting his moneys worth. don't short change good people, you lose that way. add to that the mark up on electrical components ( i know guys that go 100% on some stuff, so a panel at hd off the shelf is 187.00, it'll be billed to the client at 350.00. most "common folk" that aren't trades people dont know what this stuff costs. look at a means catalog, 87.00 for a ground rod install. 450.00 a day for pick up and man. everybody should profit in the game, not just the boss. i undersdtand business, but your people are the back bone of your business. take care of those that work good for you and do a good job, you'll get more than "your moneys worth"
I could start 10 different threads off of this one post.
BS. No they shouldn't, they get a wage not profit. They take no risk, they're employees they get a wage. Any profit sharing would be additional incentive but there is no "right to profit".
hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
There are bosses/owners that try to scam their employees, and there are just as many or more employees that try to scam the boss. Fortunately, I work for a company that if you make them money, they will treat you right. I've been with them for over twenty years. I've seen quite a few scammers over the years in the office and the field, but once there found out, the owner cuts them loose. He has paid rehab for some of employees right out of his own pocket when they got in trouble with alcohol or drugs, helped employees family's that were having medical hardships.
PEDRO ESCOVILLA
Senior Member
- Location
- south texas
there is an inherent risk with simply getting out bed in the morning. you misunderstand where i was going, from having been both a small business owner and an employee, i'm not going into it. not enough time. ask yourself this though, when you were working as an employee, did you not anticipate to "profit" somehow from your efforts.(make more money, work your up the ladder, get a raise, a company vehicle, better perks, work into a better position , improve your skills, get a "special assignment "where you could really shine and show your stuff? there are more than one meaning to many words in our language, thus requireing a broader view on the conversation, and the opinions interjected
hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
I was not trying to knock you, just using your quote as an addition to what I was stating. A good contractor will reward good employees.
cadpoint
Senior Member
- Location
- Durham, NC
... A good contractor will reward good employees.
We all can only hope and work to this end!
There is a huge difference between wage and profit and the risk:reward that is associated with either.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Would an employer that would pass the loss down to the workers ever pass extra profit on to the workers if there was any?? The way people are so greedy these days I would be surprised to see that ever happen.
hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
To keep the doors open and the employees employed, they may have to. Hostess tried, but the employees refused, so now their looking for another job. That also happened to the American steel industry years ago.
PetrosA
Senior Member
- Location
- Lancaster, Pennsylvania
In the case of Hostess, this is what happens when you have a crappy product that can only compete on price. When they need to take better care of employees, they can't raise the money to do it.
- Status