Do you need one ? I was told it is code Makes no sense
It's simply more of the NEC ruling issues that they shouldn't be involved with, while doing it under the guise of "safety". This change was probably lobbied by the cable manufacturer.
Soon we will have to pull all #12 romex in a house just in case someone comes in later and installs a 20A breaker :roll:
Why? The NEC is specifically not supposed to be a design manual. Although it breaks that virtue way too often.I saw it as inevitable with the advance of many of the home automation systems and lighted switches.
404.2(C).
Lighting loads fed from a grounded general-purpose branch-circuit.
For switching devices that may be installed in the future that may use a neutral.
Why? The NEC is specifically not supposed to be a design manual. Although it breaks that virtue way too often.
If the job wasn't speced for those upgrades when it was built, then they could have an electrician do it later.
How far should we go to support future upgrades? And why should the NEC govern that when it's clearly not a safety issue?
FWIW, my understanding of the reasoning why it was adopted is because low voltage installers were putting devices into switchboxes that required neutrals so they were bootlegging the neutral from the ground. I think that is ludicrous. There's a million other things that hackers could do, should we cater to all of them?
BTW, my anger is at the NEC and my recent purchase of expensive 14-4 romex, so please don't take my post as yelling at you.
I understands your frustration, but another example would be 314.17(c). I just put them up there because you never can tell what a homeowner may want later. Besides, I get paid for it whether they use it or not.
FWIW, I have been in circumstances where I wished for a neutral in a switchbox. I have never wished there wasn't one.
I understands your frustration, but another example would be 314.17(c). I just put them up there because you never can tell what a homeowner may want later. Besides, I get paid for it whether they use it or not.
FWIW, I have been in circumstances where I wished for a neutral in a switchbox. I have never wished there wasn't one.
I've been providing neutrals in my switchboxes for several years and I'm on the 2008 code so they're not required. I will continue to provide them but I still say it is a design issue.
Does the NEC require a neutral at a straight 220 water heater?...someone someday might install one with some new fangled energy saving control sensor that requires a neutral.
Design issue? probably. But one could argue that most of the NEC rules are design issues.
It was not a proposal from the copper people. It was a response to an issue that had been caused because the standard for occupancy sensors and other types of electronic switches permited the swith electronics to use the EGC as a grounded conductor...that is they would put a small amount of current on the EGC to power the electronics. The standard limited the current to 1/2 mA per switch. The issue is a shock hazard for someone working on the EGC between the switch and the power source. There is a shock hazard when the EGC is opened. UL said they would not change the standard to prohibit the use of the EGC as a grounded conductor unless the NEC required a grounded conductor at the switch locations.
It was not a proposal from the copper people. It was a response to an issue that had been caused because the standard for occupancy sensors and other types of electronic switches permited the swith electronics to use the EGC as a grounded conductor...that is they would put a small amount of current on the EGC to power the electronics. The standard limited the current to 1/2 mA per switch. The issue is a shock hazard for someone working on the EGC between the switch and the power source. There is a shock hazard when the EGC is opened. UL said they would not change the standard to prohibit the use of the EGC as a grounded conductor unless the NEC required a grounded conductor at the switch locations.
It doesn't matter what UL says, the NEC can prohibit the use of the EGC as the neutral.
.
I still say the cable companies lobbied this
It doesn't have to.It already does but it can't control how equipment is designed.
Yeah, ok, cause NOTHING ever goes on behind the scenes by people lobbying :lol:And you would still be mistaken, this stuff is public info that can be found in the ROPs.
Yes the NEC can, but as far as I know, does not specifically prohibit using the EGC as a grounded conductor. Even if there was a specific rule to that effect, enforcement would be difficult.It doesn't matter what UL says, the NEC can prohibit the use of the EGC as the neutral.
I still say the cable companies lobbied this.