Cask of the Service Entrance (with apologies to Poe)

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tonype

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Owner recently decided to install an 8" decorative block to outside of an industrial building - underlying walls are also masonry block and brick). Service entrance conduit is now buried between the layers. Is this legit?

DSCF6199.jpg
 
jumper

jumper

Senior Member
Location
3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
Actually, assuming the fire rating is maintained on the internal wall, I believe it is legal.

230.6 Conductors Considered Outside the Building.
Conductors shall be considered outside of a building or
other structure under any of the following conditions:

(2) Where installed within a building or other structure in a
raceway that is encased in concrete or brick not less
than 50 mm (2 in.) thick
 
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iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
jumper said:
Actually, assuming the fire rating is maintained on the internal wall, I believe it is legal.

230.6 Conductors Considered Outside the Building.
Conductors shall be considered outside of a building or
other structure under any of the following conditions:

(2) Where installed within a building or other structure in a
raceway that is encased in concrete or brick not less
than 50 mm (2 in.) thick
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I do not believe they are encased in brick, just hidden.

In my area that is a fail, other areas maybe not.
 
jumper

jumper

Senior Member
Location
3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
iwire said:
I do not believe they are encased in brick, just hidden.

In my area that is a fail, other areas maybe not.
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iwire said:
The length of SECs inside the building has been increased, that would be a 230.70 issue.
Click to expand...

tonype said:
Owner recently decided to install an 8" decorative block to outside of an industrial building - underlying walls are also masonry block and brick). Service entrance conduit is now buried between the layers. Is this legit?
Click to expand...

Reads like encased to me. SECs between 2 layers of CMUs/brick/block/etc.
 
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jim dungar

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
PE (Retired) - Power Systems
iwire said:
Between is not encased.
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So what is your definition of encased?
According to Merriam Webster, it means "to surround" - with a synonym of "pen in" and "corral".

Are you thinking of embed, which M-W defines as "enclose closely".


It appears we are trying to use an electrical code to define something in the purview of building/structural codes.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
iwire said:
I also would be very surprised if the top of this slot is masonry, most likely wood wood with metal flashing on top.
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I don't disagree with any of the points you have brought up here. I still think most AHJ's will accept in principle considering this outside the building as long as the masonry wall between the raceway and the building interior is intact.

What if you have a transformer vault 20' wide, 15' tall and only a couple inches deep? If top side of this is not 2" of manonry but is not exposed to the building interior isn't it still outside?

Can't you run service raceways through a chase that is constructed to provide 2 inch concrete between the interior of the chase and the interior of the building?
 
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