Using a individual 14awg green insulated ground wire for grounding.

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Ohms law

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I did not think you could use a individual wire for grounding purposes unless it followed the outside of a conduit. I recently was working on a remodel and I ran into a NM cable with out ground, someone ran a green insulated #14 awg solid ground wire to a water line so they could have a grounded receptacle. I was curious where does it say in the code book that I can do this?

My boss said it was ok, but I am kind of questioning this method. Any input would be great! If its correct:D
 
In the 1990 Code, grounding a 3 wire replacement outlet to the closest water pipe was acceptable.
I'm not sure when it changed.
 
You can still do it today, with limitations on exactly where that long equipment grounding conductor can terminate. See 250.130(C). Other rules saying the grounding conductor must follow the other conductors usually has an exception for 250.130.
 
In the '90 Code it appears to be around 250.50. I don't have that Code close by but y McPartalnd Guide discusses it in reference to 250.50

opps day later, dollar short Thanks, gregg

you must have a great library ...
 
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suemarkp said:
You can still do it today, with limitations on exactly where that long equipment grounding conductor can terminate. See 250.130(C). Other rules saying the grounding conductor must follow the other conductors usually has an exception for 250.130.
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O, wow. I didn't see that earlier. I can't believe I missed that. Thanks for the info folks!
 
Ohms law said:
O, wow. I didn't see that earlier. I can't believe I missed that. Thanks for the info folks!
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Note that when 250.130(C) refers to an accessible point on the ground electrode system, it does NOT necessarily allow connection to any arbitrary point on the interior water piping which might be bonded to the GES, but not part of the GES. (One of the possible limitations that Augie referred to.)
Connecting to a water pipe between the GEC attachment point and the point where the pipe goes underground should be OK.
 
GoldDigger said:
Note that when 250.130(C) refers to an accessible point on the ground electrode system, it does NOT necessarily allow connection to any arbitrary point on the interior water piping which might be bonded to the GES, but not part of the GES. (One of the possible limitations that Augie referred to.)
Connecting to a water pipe between the GEC attachment point and the point where the pipe goes underground should be OK.
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Does it not say , "any accessible point on the grounding electrode system as described in 250.50." So if I read 250.50(A)(1) it describes a metal underground water pipe electrically continuous to the points of connection of the grounding electrode conductor and the bonding conductors or jumpers, if installed. I should be good to attach to any part of the water pipe being that it is continuous.
 
I think this is what he was talking about.
250.52 Grounding Electrodes.
(A) Electrodes Permitted for Grounding.
(1) Metal Underground Water Pipe. A metal underground water pipe in direct contact with the earth for 3.0 m (10 ft) or more (including any metal well casing bonded to the pipe) and electrically continuous (or made electrically continuous by bonding around insulating joints or insulating pipe) to the points of connection of the grounding electrode conductor and the bonding conductors. Interior metal water piping located more than 1.52 m (5 ft) from the point of entrance to the building shall not be used as a part of the grounding electrode system or as a conductor to interconnect electrodes that are part of the grounding electrode system.
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augie47 said:
I agree.
IMO, it would be a violation to connect beyond the 5 ft point.
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The reason for removing it was due to the use of plastics in repairing water lines. If it is within the first 5 feet when metal water service is available it would be compliant.

I believe the requirement to bond around repairs should have been required to keep the water piping system continuous.
 
Since art. 250.68(C)(1) states the 5' rule, I'm SOL. I will need to add a dead front at the panel so I can install a 3-prong receptacle. I have no access to run a new wire from the panel. Gotta love remodels, people want everything with the least amount of damage.
 
Next step is for some jackleg to offer to "fix" it by strapping neutral to ground for 1/3 your price :D
 
If this is an existing installation why do you need to change it? If it met the code at the time of the installation just leave it alone.
 
curt swartz said:
If this is an existing installation why do you need to change it? If it met the code at the time of the installation just leave it alone.
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If you replace an old luminaire which either does not have any exposed metal parts or was from the pre-ground days with a new luminaire which does have exposed metal parts, was tested for safety with the ground connected, and has instructions to connect the green wire, that could trigger a requirement to supply a ground/bond wire (i.e. an EGC).
Changing the connected equipment can over-ride the grandfathered status of the outlet itself. Look at adding a three-wire receptacle in place of a two wire, for example.
Similar reasoning is why putting in a combination GFCI breaker could be a solution.
 
Gregg Harris said:
The reason for removing it was due to the use of plastics in repairing water lines. If it is within the first 5 feet when metal water service is available it would be compliant.

I believe the requirement to bond around repairs should have been required to keep the water piping system continuous.
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There was another interesting thread that related the story of a fire started by a "ground" wire connected to an old plumbing system at some point in the past. Except that it was actually a current carrying conductor because the real neutral had failed and the two were bonded at the outlet.
It is also possible to cause severe injury to a plumber if they interrupt a pipe used as an EGC which is actually carrying current.
An electrician should be more aware of that hazard, but probably would not think twice about cutting the pipe anyway.

(Note: the hazard in the other thread came not from an interruption of the pipe but from the haphazard way the wire was loosely connected to the pipe, IMHO.)
 
Ohms law said:
This was a dedicated circuit for an ironing board now it will serve power for a TV in a cabinet that is being modified for the TV.
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Well semi-off topic, but depending on where the ironing board was, as in if it was in the laundry area, the grounding wire to the "laundry tub" was the first requirement for an EGC in a branch circuit in the NEC, back in '47.
 
Volta said:
Well semi-off topic, but depending on where the ironing board was, as in if it was in the laundry area, the grounding wire to the "laundry tub" was the first requirement for an EGC in a branch circuit in the NEC, back in '47.
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So if the water line the OP referred to is the one once feeding the laundry tub, the green wire may not only be permitted but required!
 
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