Using a individual 14awg green insulated ground wire for grounding.

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Ohms law said:
Since art. 250.68(C)(1) states the 5' rule, I'm SOL. I will need to add a dead front at the panel so I can install a 3-prong receptacle. I have no access to run a new wire from the panel. Gotta love remodels, people want everything with the least amount of damage.
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You have no access? There is no rule that says this lone ground has to be without splice or can't take a convoluted path. You could run it from the panel, or the outside ground electrode, up the outside wall, along the wall, into the wall or eave, and over to where you need it to go. You could also find some other existing EGC (if of sufficient size) and extend it. About the toughest place would be an internal wall in a middle floor (with above and below floors finished). If you did this with a single #10, you'd have a common point to branch from for other grounding tails for other outlets. Sometimes you can get lucky and find an old phone cable or something else you can use to pull a green ground through a wall without having to tear it up or try and bore through it. Managed to do that at my last house from basement to attic so it didn't have to run up the siding trim.
 
Ohms law said:
This was a dedicated circuit for an ironing board now it will serve power for a TV in a cabinet that is being modified for the TV.
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The TV requires a three prong outlet? My TV's (I'm pretty sure) all use two prong polarized plugs.

But whatever. Just slap a ground lift block on it and be done with it.







Not really. :D
 
It sounds like the OP is extending this existing circuit for a TV. The NEC allows exsiting non grounding receptacles to be replaced with GFCI devices but it don't allow the circuit to be extended to new receptacles. I would just verify that the existing ground is good and extend the circuit. If you want to install a GFCI as additional protection that's fine but I would not extend the circuit without a EGC.

Most new TV's have 3 prong plugs and are designed to be connected to a circuit that has a grounding conductor. While the NEC allows 3 prong replacement receptacles to be installed without an EGC you are really not supposed to plug anything in to those receptacle that requires a 3 prong plug.
 
curt swartz said:
It sounds like the OP is extending this existing circuit for a TV. The NEC allows exsiting non grounding receptacles to be replaced with GFCI devices but it don't allow the circuit to be extended to new receptacles. I would just verify that the existing ground is good and extend the circuit. If you want to install a GFCI as additional protection that's fine but I would not extend the circuit without a EGC.

Most new TV's have 3 prong plugs and are designed to be connected to a circuit that has a grounding conductor. While the NEC allows 3 prong replacement receptacles to be installed without an EGC you are really not supposed to plug anything in to those receptacle that requires a 3 prong plug.
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Your response is right on. I don't see where the ground wire goes, and according to previous post it can't just go anywhere on the copper water line. I did not see it in the panel, although it is grounded. My boss said to go head and use it. I was going to install a GFCI outlet but then it wouldn't be readily accessible since it would be behind the TV.

I suppose I'll listen to the boss man. I explained to him this morning that it needs to be within 5' of the copper water line once it enters the building.
 
Up until recently the wire could get connected to the interior piping at at convenient point. There is a good chance that at the time it was installed it was compliant.

When grounding of certain receptacles (kitchen, bath & laundry) and lighting outlets first started being required the standard method was to run a #14 bare wire to the closest water pipe. Early NM cable did not have a grounding wire.
 
curt swartz said:
Up until recently the wire could get connected to the interior piping at at convenient point. There is a good chance that at the time it was installed it was compliant.

When grounding of certain receptacles (kitchen, bath & laundry) and lighting outlets first started being required the standard method was to run a #14 bare wire to the closest water pipe. Early NM cable did not have a grounding wire.
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Just a side note: under current code the wire may need to be larger than #14 depending on the size of the other conductors in the circuit.
Is this a 20A laundry circuit?
 
curt swartz said:
The NEC allows exsiting non grounding receptacles to be replaced with GFCI devices but it don't allow the circuit to be extended to new receptacles.
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Sure it does. NEC 250.130(C) allows grounding old ungrounded receptacles or branch circuit extensions to old ungrounded circuits. You can't install a new ungorunded circuit, but you can begin the grounding of that new circuit extension where you connect it to the old ungrounded circuit. You run the long separate ground tail back to the panel in either case. However, in most cases if you can run a single grounding wire, you can most likely pull a whole new cable containing a grounding condutor which would be a better solution.
 
Volta said:
Well semi-off topic, but depending on where the ironing board was, as in if it was in the laundry area, the grounding wire to the "laundry tub" was the first requirement for an EGC in a branch circuit in the NEC, back in '47.
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This ironing board circuit was in the kitchen, although the laundry is in a closet in the kithen as well. But there is no tub just a washer and dryer.
 
Gregg Harris said:
The reason for removing it was due to the use of plastics in repairing water lines. If it is within the first 5 feet when metal water service is available it would be compliant.

I believe the requirement to bond around repairs should have been required to keep the water piping system continuous.
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Then the requirement really needs to be in the plumbing codes, as the electricians are not likely the ones replacing metallic piping with non metallic piping.

augie47 said:
Next step is for some jackleg to offer to "fix" it by strapping neutral to ground for 1/3 your price :D
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which probably does happen quite often

GoldDigger said:
If you replace an old luminaire which either does not have any exposed metal parts or was from the pre-ground days with a new luminaire which does have exposed metal parts, was tested for safety with the ground connected, and has instructions to connect the green wire, that could trigger a requirement to supply a ground/bond wire (i.e. an EGC).
Changing the connected equipment can over-ride the grandfathered status of the outlet itself. Look at adding a three-wire receptacle in place of a two wire, for example.
Similar reasoning is why putting in a combination GFCI breaker could be a solution.
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Go back to Augie's jackleg that will do it for 1/3 of your price, or even less than 1/3. If customer turns the switch on and it lights up, it must be ok.

curt swartz said:
Up until recently the wire could get connected to the interior piping at at convenient point. There is a good chance that at the time it was installed it was compliant.
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If you call 1993 recently. If you are less than 30 years old, it was a long time ago. If you are older than 45 it may be recent to you.:)
 
Ohms law said:
This ironing board circuit was in the kitchen, although the laundry is in a closet in the kithen as well. But there is no tub just a washer and dryer.
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Well, in 1947 they were calling a laundry tub- wait, I take it back- appliance.

NEC 1947 2124.b. said:
... At least one receptacle outlet shall be installed for the connection of laundry appliances. This receptacle shall be of a 3-pole type designed for grounding. ...
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Funny, they didn't require that the receptacle be connected to a grounding conductor. . . . :cool:

By golly, the book has gotten more lawyeristic!
 
suemarkp said:
Sure it does. NEC 250.130(C) allows grounding old ungrounded receptacles or branch circuit extensions to old ungrounded circuits. You can't install a new ungorunded circuit, but you can begin the grounding of that new circuit extension where you connect it to the old ungrounded circuit. You run the long separate ground tail back to the panel in either case. However, in most cases if you can run a single grounding wire, you can most likely pull a whole new cable containing a grounding condutor which would be a better solution.
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I was referring to extending the circuit without a grounding conductor then adding GFCI protection for the new wiring and receptacle. That is what it sounded like OP wanted to do.
 
kwired said:
If you call 1993 recently. If you are less than 30 years old, it was a long time ago. If you are older than 45 it may be recent to you.:)
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Well................................
I'm actually 47. I started working under the 1981 NEC. It really does not seem like 93 was that long ago. Time sure fly's doesn't it...... :)
 
curt swartz said:
Well................................
I'm actually 47. I started working under the 1981 NEC. It really does not seem like 93 was that long ago. Time sure fly's doesn't it...... :)
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I'm 45, yes 1993 does only seem like it was 5 or 10 years ago and not 20 sometimes.
 
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