european appliances to be used in USA

[wireperson]

I have this situation where the customer is remodeling his kitchen and brought his appliances from his house in Europe , refrigerators,1 dishwasher,2 ovens,1 stove.when I asked him about the appliances power details hhe checked online and told me that the refris where 120V , now, when I saw he actual refris they are 220V 50hz european appliances,the wiring is already done for 120 V ,Im trying to figure out the best solution for this situation.I was thinking in installing 240V outlets and change the european plugs to 250V US plugs to feed the refris, but my concern is the frecuency is still 60hz and the appliances are 50 hz , and have electronics.maybe I can get a frecuency converter . . any inputs on this?

 

[LEO2854]

I have this situation where the customer is remodeling his kitchen and brought his appliances from his house in Europe , refrigerators,1 dishwasher,2 ovens,1 stove.when I asked him about the appliances power details hhe checked online and told me that the refris where 120V , now, when I saw he actual refris they are 220V 50hz european appliances,the wiring is already done for 120 V ,Im trying to figure out the best solution for this situation.I was thinking in installing 240V outlets and change the european plugs to 250V US plugs to feed the refris, but my concern is the frecuency is still 60hz and the appliances are 50 hz , and have electronics.maybe I can get a frecuency converter . . any inputs on this?

Sometimes those units have a switch on them eu/us,if so you'll still have to change the cord.

 

[fmtjfw]

Lots of stuff works

Lots of stuff works

Generally if the device doesn't have a timer or clock in it, it should work fine. I had a German small refrig that ran for decades on 250V 60Hz. Some appliances may be wired for 250V 3phase Y. In some cases (stoves, for instance) there may be "strapping" options that can convert them to single phase.

Clocks and timers will run 20% faster (assuming based on line frequency). If they use an internal crystal instead, they should run ok.

TVs will be SECAM or PAL but might have a option to run on NTSC. DVD players might have the wrong area code and not run US DVDs (and not be NTSC?).

We've got waffle iron, clothes iron, soldiering irons, BOSE active converter, sewing machine, and I don't remember what all. I just sprinkled a few 250V 15A receptacles around and changed the plugs.

Computer products and electrical medical devices will probably be voltage and frequency agile. Anything that uses an IEC connector and a detachable cord is likely to be agile.

 

[iwire]

I was thinking in installing 240V outlets and change the european plugs to 250V US plugs to feed the refris, but my concern is the frecuency is still 60hz and the appliances are 50 hz , and have electronics.maybe I can get a frecuency converter . . any inputs on this?

Most likely you cannot install the 240 outlets that he would need.

The NEC prohibits 240 volt outlets in dwelling units for small loads.

210.6 Branch-Circuit Voltage Limitations. The nominal
voltage of branch circuits shall not exceed the values permitted
by 210.6(A) through (E).

(A) Occupancy Limitation. In dwelling units and guest
rooms or guest suites of hotels, motels, and similar occupancies,
the voltage shall not exceed 120 volts, nominal, between
conductors that supply the terminals of the following:

(1) Luminaires

(2) Cord-and-plug-connected loads 1440 volt-amperes,
nominal, or less or less than 1?4 hp

So the appliances would need to draw more than 6 amps at 240 in order to use 240 receptacles.

 

[broadgage]

Most appliances will be fine, but as others post, code effectively prohibits small 240 appliances being cord and plug connected.
It must be said though that this cant really be enforced.
After all, if an electrician instals a 240 volt outlet for a heavy loading 240 appliance, then surely the installation is compliant and should pass inspection.
Neither the inspector nor the electrician need know if the HO latter "misuses" the outlet for a 240 volt fridge.

It would be advisable to also install a standard 120 volt outlet for a fridge.

 

[iwire]

Most appliances will be fine, but as others post, code effectively prohibits small 240 appliances being cord and plug connected.
It must be said though that this cant really be enforced.
After all, if an electrician instals a 240 volt outlet for a heavy loading 240 appliance, then surely the installation is compliant and should pass inspection.
Neither the inspector nor the electrician need know if the HO latter "misuses" the outlet for a 240 volt fridge.

Certainly some truth there but we have to pass inspection and inspectors are not usually stupid.

If they see some 15 or 20 amp 250 volt receptacles around the kitchen and they ask what they are for I am not going to lie to them.

It would be advisable to also install a standard 120 volt outlet for a fridge.

The kitchen will have to have all the normally required 120 volt receptacles regardless of any additional 240 receptacles.

 

[Jraef]

NEC rules not withstanding, this is probably going to end poorly for the consumer, so make sure you cover your bases by letting him know that there is a high likelihood of premature failure of these appliances, unless the manufacturer has SPECIFICALLY designed them for use on 60Hz, either by putting in a switch or using an electronic controller what can accept any input. You don't want him coming after you later for the cost of replacing them because "you are a professional and should have warned him".

The problem with them "checking on line" is that if they did that from a server inside of the US, the target website server for the seller typically identifies the query as coming from the US, so it will only show them the products designed to work here. That explains why they said it told them 120V, but you are seeing 230V 50Hz. The reality is, by buying the appliances IN Europe and shipping them here, they will have purchased versions DESIGNED for EU voltages, not ours. By the way, they will also not be UL listed, which is not really your problem if they are plugged in, but if they start a fire later and the insurance company investigates, it may become a problem for them at that time. Some insurers will not cover damages caused by unlisted appliances.

So the primary problem is that any AC motors (i.e. refrigerator compressors, washer motors, dryer motors, oven and stove fan motors etc.) will prematurely fail even if you correct the voltage. AC motors must get the proper ratio of voltage and frequency to provide rated torque and run at rated current. A motor designed for 220V 50Hz is looking for 4.4 V/Hz. If you provide it with 240V 60Hz, the ratio is 4:1. the motor will spin faster, but provide LESS torque, which means they will end up with more slip and pull higher than rated current. They will either trip their overload protection (assuming it is there) and be a nuisance or burn out prematurely.

Stoves and ovens are likely designed for Line to Neutral 220V (the EU standard) and I have seen where they ground the Neutral INSIDE of the appliance, based on other EU wiring standards. If that's the case, 240V single phase here is Line to Line, so any internal grounded Neutral connections will be a dead ground fault. You may have to go through the internal wiring diagrams of the stoves and ovens to search out any of these issues BEFORE applying power. Make sure you cover the time this will take you.

Things with electronic power supplies MIGHT survive, but there is no guarantee and I think you owe it to them to let them know.

It never ceases to amaze me how (and why) people insist on moving large appliances to or from other countries without checking into the ramifications FIRST with a qualified electrical professional.

 

[weressl]

NEC rules not withstanding, this is probably going to end poorly for the consumer, so make sure you cover your bases by letting him know that there is a high likelihood of premature failure of these appliances, unless the manufacturer has SPECIFICALLY designed them for use on 60Hz, either by putting in a switch or using an electronic controller what can accept any input. You don't want him coming after you later for the cost of replacing them because "you are a professional and should have warned him".

The problem with them "checking on line" is that if they did that from a server inside of the US, the target website server for the seller typically identifies the query as coming from the US, so it will only show them the products designed to work here. That explains why they said it told them 120V, but you are seeing 230V 50Hz. The reality is, by buying the appliances IN Europe and shipping them here, they will have purchased versions DESIGNED for EU voltages, not ours. By the way, they will also not be UL listed, which is not really your problem if they are plugged in, but if they start a fire later and the insurance company investigates, it may become a problem for them at that time. Some insurers will not cover damages caused by unlisted appliances.

So the primary problem is that any AC motors (i.e. refrigerator compressors, washer motors, dryer motors, oven and stove fan motors etc.) will prematurely fail even if you correct the voltage. AC motors must get the proper ratio of voltage and frequency to provide rated torque and run at rated current. A motor designed for 220V 50Hz is looking for 4.4 V/Hz. If you provide it with 240V 60Hz, the ratio is 4:1. the motor will spin faster, but provide LESS torque, which means they will end up with more slip and pull higher than rated current. They will either trip their overload protection (assuming it is there) and be a nuisance or burn out prematurely.

Stoves and ovens are likely designed for Line to Neutral 220V (the EU standard) and I have seen where they ground the Neutral INSIDE of the appliance, based on other EU wiring standards. If that's the case, 240V single phase here is Line to Line, so any internal grounded Neutral connections will be a dead ground fault. You may have to go through the internal wiring diagrams of the stoves and ovens to search out any of these issues BEFORE applying power. Make sure you cover the time this will take you.

Things with electronic power supplies MIGHT survive, but there is no guarantee and I think you owe it to them to let them know.

It never ceases to amaze me how (and why) people insist on moving large appliances to or from other countries without checking into the ramifications FIRST with a qualified electrical professional.

Will they also intend to replace those units with EU equipment when they fail? Or will be complaining about the rewiring cost for the properly rated new plugs and wire sizes?

 

[StarCat]

240V Outlets

240V Outlets

There are a lot of older style 240V window AC units in the 18,000 BTU range that still exist. They have cords and they " plug " in.
Now in essence this kind of code writing looks a bit silly at at glance.
Possibly someone could elaborate on what they are aiming at by drawing some kind of imaginary line at 120V.

 

[fmtjfw]

Will they also intend to replace those units with EU equipment when they fail? Or will be complaining about the rewiring cost for the properly rated new plugs and wire sizes?

Run Red, Black, White w/Ground to each. Now just switch the receptacle. Or run Black, White re-identified with red tape and ground ....

 

[GoldDigger]

Run Red, Black, White w/Ground to each. Now just switch the receptacle. Or run Black, White re-identified with red tape and ground ....

In any case, the OP stated that he would still provide the normally required 120/240 receptacles which would be required if the appliances were replaced, so this re-identification would not be necessary provided he ran separate circuits.

 

[iwire]

In any case, the OP stated that he would still provide the normally required 120/240 receptacles which would be required if the appliances were replaced,

The 120s are required by code regardless of the appliance voltage.

 

[iwire]

There are a lot of older style 240V window AC units in the 18,000 BTU range that still exist. They have cords and they " plug " in.

I have one, and it is supplied by a 240 volt, 20 amp receptacle. But that is well over 1440va so that is allowed.

Now in essence this kind of code writing looks a bit silly at at glance.
Possibly someone could elaborate on what they are aiming at by drawing some kind of imaginary line at 120V.

No idea but it is not a hardship until you try to use equipment designed for another country. Something I doubt was considered back when that code section was written.

 

[JDBrown]

I just wonder what's so special about these appliances that it was worth paying to ship them across the Atlantic and then paying an Electrician to rewire the house for them. I find it very hard to believe that it wouldn't have been more cost effective (not to mention a whole lot easier) to leave the European appliances in Europe and buy new appliances manufactured for the US market. Maybe I just don't have the right money-is-no-object attitude ...

I suppose none of this really matters at this stage in the game, anyway.

 

[GoldDigger]

I just wonder what's so special about these appliances that it was worth paying to ship them across the Atlantic and then paying an Electrician to rewire the house for them.

Familiarity breeds content.
Also, an employer might pay relocation money to ship them but not to buy new appliances on arrival.

 

[fmtjfw]

I just wonder what's so special about these appliances that it was worth paying to ship them across the Atlantic and then paying an Electrician to rewire the house for them. I find it very hard to believe that it wouldn't have been more cost effective (not to mention a whole lot easier) to leave the European appliances in Europe and buy new appliances manufactured for the US market. Maybe I just don't have the right money-is-no-object attitude ...

I suppose none of this really matters at this stage in the game, anyway.

In my and my wife's case we had relocation which provided enough pounds that we could ship them for "free".
The appliances were owned by us and satisfactory, why abandon them and then buy new ones?
Not cost effective!

Some were unlikely to be available in US.
We did leave the ones that would not easily adapt, clocks, TVs, record players.

I added some 250V receptacles and used autotransformers stepping up for others by repurposing the stepdown transformers we used in Germany to run 125V appliances.

 

[wireperson]

is there somme kind of frecency converter from 60hz to 50hz that can be used to run he refrigerators?Im not concern about the ovens because the label says that they are 50/60 hz
but the refrigerators are 50hz only.I was searching online but no luck so far

 

[fmtjfw]

is there somme kind of frecency converter from 60hz to 50hz that can be used to run he refrigerators?Im not concern about the ovens because the label says that they are 50/60 hz
but the refrigerators are 50hz only.I was searching online but no luck so far

Unlikely to be a problem, as a matter of fact, it will probably last longer on 60Hz.

 

[norcal]

It makes the most sense to me that European appliances be used in Europe or elsewhere in the 50 Hertz world, & US appliances be used in the parts of the world that use 60 Hertz. There have been a large number threads on various forums asking how to use a US sourced dryer on 220/230/240V 50 Hertz supplies, just is not going to work, not part of the OP but just another reason to use the appliances in the region they were designed & intended to be used in.

 

[fmtjfw]

It makes the most sense to me that European appliances be used in Europe or elsewhere in the 50 Hertz world, & US appliances be used in the parts of the world that use 60 Hertz. There have been a large number threads on various forums asking how to use a US sourced dryer on 220/230/240V 50 Hertz supplies, just is not going to work.

Items that have inductive reactance and designed for 50Hz will have lower current when run on 60Hz. Most motors will work when moved from 50Hz to 60Hz, same for transformers.

On the other hand, moving a 60Hz item with reactance moved to 50Hz often have overcurrents.

Resistive items, like heating elements in stoves and dryers are unaffected by the frequency.

This is why moving 50Hz appliances to 60Hz works, and the reverse may not.