european appliances to be used in USA

[fmtjfw]

It makes the most sense to me that European appliances be used in Europe or elsewhere in the 50 Hertz world, & US appliances be used in the parts of the world that use 60 Hertz. There have been a large number threads on various forums asking how to use a US sourced dryer on 220/230/240V 50 Hertz supplies, just is not going to work, not part of the OP but just another reason to use the appliances in the region they were designed & intended to be used in.

Lots of electronics (computers, medical appliances, ...) are often designed to work over a range of 100V to 250V and 50Hz to 60Hz. The idea is that the device or power supply can be used anywhere. The power cords are often removable and terminate in one of the IEC connectors. Thus you only need to change the power cord to deliver the product to another market. In the case of computers with separate keyboards, the country's keyboard and power cord may be packaged together.

 

[norcal]

Lots of electronics (computers, medical appliances, ...) are often designed to work over a range of 100V to 250V and 50Hz to 60Hz. The idea is that the device or power supply can be used anywhere. The power cords are often removable and terminate in one of the IEC connectors. Thus you only need to change the power cord to deliver the product to another market. In the case of computers with separate keyboards, the country's keyboard and power cord may be packaged together.

But EU kitchen appliances are not intended nor approved to used here.

 

[PetrosA]

Just to "correct" some of the misinformation here...

It is cheaper to ship the appliances than to buy new ones. We shipped a bunch of stuff air freight for about $2000 which included a washing machine, commercial espresso machine, vacuum (miele), books, dinner set, clothes, etc. It would have cost more just to replace the espresso machine than what I paid for the entire transport. That being said, I think it's a bad idea to try and relocate items like refrigerators and dishwashers - it's not worth the trouble. Our vacuum and espresso machine are both still working fine after almost 8 years being back, but the washing machine couldn't handle the different frequency. The drive motors and heating element worked fine, but the dosing system couldn't be adjusted to work on 60 Hz and misdosed pretty often. We got a new washer.

Some small appliances like cordless kettles would work here without any issues and would probably qualify as a heavy enough load to run a 240V recept to - while our kettles are limited to about 1500W (1800W is the most I've seen here) they typically run between 2000-2400W in Europe. The kettle we have here is also sold in Europe but our US model is 1500W while the EU version is 2200W - considerably faster at boiling water and more than 1440 volt-amperes. I don't think it would make economic sense to run a 240V circuit to a kettle (although I did so for one customer who had a very special teapot) but there are some appliances which the cost to replace would grossly outpace the cost of transport and running a dedicated line to and will work fine here like my espresso machine. Even the Miele vacuum was worth shipping, running a 240V outlet and making up extension cords for. Way cheaper than buying the same or similar vac here in the US.

US dryers, at least the older ones with mechanical timers, work fine in Europe. I had one for over ten years that I used to handle the laundry from my cafe. There was no equivalent beast available from an EU manufacturer unless you got into the outrageously expensive commercial units (which are three phase), so almost every family that came over as embassy staff had one and they sold like hot cakes at the embassy auctions.

I also don't know that I can agree with the theory that European ranges will have the neutral tied to the ground (or frame) internally. Almost every service in Europe is RCD protected and this would trip the main immediately.

 

[mbrooke]

Most likely you cannot install the 240 outlets that he would need.

The NEC prohibits 240 volt outlets in dwelling units for small loads.



So the appliances would need to draw more than 6 amps at 240 in order to use 240 receptacles.

That makes no sense because they allow 120 volt split wired outlets. 240 volts less than an inch between 2 holes.

 

[mbrooke]

I just wonder what's so special about these appliances that it was worth paying to ship them across the Atlantic and then paying an Electrician to rewire the house for them. I find it very hard to believe that it wouldn't have been more cost effective (not to mention a whole lot easier) to leave the European appliances in Europe and buy new appliances manufactured for the US market. Maybe I just don't have the right money-is-no-object attitude ...

I suppose none of this really matters at this stage in the game, anyway.

Some European appliances function better or are made better than American counter parts. Some have desired features, other people just think its better without anything to back it up. And any small European appliance will have much more power, ie hair dryers, toasters ect are limited to 1800 watts in the US while in the EU one can easily find them with 2400watts, 3000 watts, 3500 watts ect. Much higher ratings. I have a German 220 volt 50hz electric Griddle rated about 3000 watts and it makes all the difference. Put in on a NEMA 6-15P no issues so far.

If the appliance has any motor load or mechanical clocks than it will be an issue, however resistive loads wont care. Same with switched mode power supplies, they wont care. I dont think the oven will be an issue in regards to line-line 240 instead of line ground 240. Small chance the neutral could be bonded but highly unlikely. TN-C earthing in Europe has not existed for decades. Some older Russian installs still exist but I doubt this is automatically configured for that.

 

[mbrooke]

But EU kitchen appliances are not intended nor approved to used here.

Doesn't mean they cant run safely. Most appliances like hair dryers, deep fryers cookers even washers and dryers will work fine here in the US at 60hz. Of course mechanical timers and non inverter fed motors might have an issue, but those that don't do fine. An American dryer wont work in Europe because it needs 120-0-120 instead of straight 240, but as long as 240 potential is applied to straight 240 appliances they usually will work fine. Also keep in mind that a 50 hertz motor on 60 hz is far less likely to have problems than 60 hz on 50hz due to magnetic saturation.

 

[StarCat]

Pumps and 60hz power

Pumps and 60hz power

Unlikely to be a problem, as a matter of fact, it will probably last longer on 60Hz.

The jump in RPMs with respect to pumps can be an issue.
On the Fridge I would do a test run with an ammeter and see where it lands with respect to RLA. There should be some head room to the nameplate AMPs on the compressor.

I have converted one large Italian machine in our plant and the centrifugal pump was the main issue because of what has been stated.
Not impossible but it was a challenge.

 

[Besoeker]

I also don't know that I can agree with the theory that European ranges will have the neutral tied to the ground (or frame) internally.

You're correct for UK at least.
We have three pin plugs and sockets. Live, neutral, and earth. The neutral goes back to the distribution transformer. Usually that's the star point of a Dyn tranny. The star point is usually where the system is grounded.

 

[mbrooke]

You're correct for UK at least.
We have three pin plugs and sockets. Live, neutral, and earth. The neutral goes back to the distribution transformer. Usually that's the star point of a Dyn tranny. The star point is usually where the system is grounded.

I thought the norm was TN-C-S or TN-S in the UK. A neutral to ground bond would trip the RCD (GFCI) breaker after the main service consumer unit?

 

[Besoeker]

I thought the norm was TN-C-S or TN-S in the UK. A neutral to ground bond would trip the RCD (GFCI) breaker after the main service consumer unit?

I don't know of any service where neutral is connected to ground/earth other than at a single point, usually at the distribution transformer.

 

[mbrooke]

I don't know of any service where neutral is connected to ground/earth other than at a single point, usually at the distribution transformer.

If its only earthed at the distribution transformer that sounds like a TT or TN-S system, which by all mean would mean that the neutral would not be connected to the frame in any European oven.

In the states our system is TN-C-S. The neutral and ground function is combined in one conducter thats is repetadly earthed on the utility side (muliti grounded neutral) but after the first disconnect at the customer the 2 are then separated. However there was an exception up until the 1996 code that allowed ranges and dryers to be grounded via the neutral. The TN-C earthing arrangement was brought up to the appliance, hence the neutral had a strap connecting it to the metal frame.

Not disagreeing with you, I agree, but I just disagree with Jraef's statement the European ranges have neutral ground bonds. I know they did in Russia especially during the soviet regime as TN-C was common everywhere even up to most appliances.

 

[Besoeker]

If its only earthed at the distribution transformer that sounds like a TT or TN-S system, which by all mean would mean that the neutral would not be connected to the frame in any European oven.

I have not seen the neutral connected to any metallic frame of any appliance.

 

[Jraef]

I only brought it up because I HAVE seen it.

I worked for Klockner-Moeller here in the US decades ago and because we were a UL panel shop, we ended up getting lots of requests to modify imported equipment and UL list the electrical control panels. Because of this, we also ended up having to do this for key customers that brought us their imported appliances as well (we had a salesman who could not say no...). On two separate occasions, both being Bosch appliances as I recall, we found that there was an internal ground connection to the neutral used in 230V heating elements, one an oven, the other a dishwasher. Our shop found out by energizing them at the test stand and seeing the fireworks (partly the result of poor design of the protection systems on out test panel as well), and as a lowly junior Application Engineer, I got the task of finding the problem. Our Engineering Manager, who was from South Africa, told me it was because that was allowable / necessary for some types of IEC power systems. I had no reason (nor the kahunas) to question him. Maybe it was because that was 1978-1979 and standards have changed since then?

 

[mbrooke]

I only brought it up because I HAVE seen it.

I worked for Klockner-Moeller here in the US decades ago and because we were a UL panel shop, we ended up getting lots of requests to modify imported equipment and UL list the electrical control panels. Because of this, we also ended up having to do this for key customers that brought us their imported appliances as well (we had a salesman who could not say no...). On two separate occasions, both being Bosch appliances as I recall, we found that there was an internal ground connection to the neutral used in 230V heating elements, one an oven, the other a dishwasher. Our shop found out by energizing them at the test stand and seeing the fireworks (partly the result of poor design of the protection systems on out test panel as well), and as a lowly junior Application Engineer, I got the task of finding the problem. Our Engineering Manager, who was from South Africa, told me it was because that was allowable / necessary for some types of IEC power systems. I had no reason (nor the kahunas) to question him. Maybe it was because that was 1978-1979 and standards have changed since then?

My best guess those may have been for the Russian market or parts of Europe under the control of the USSR. I say that only because using the neutral as a ground was common in Russia back then. Also the standards have changed significantly all over Europe. Heck even Britian which followed I believe BS7671 I think follows the IEC now (I think), at least with the color schemes. GFCI too are now required on most circuits similar to the way AFCIs are required here. Bosoeker would know better than me one this subject however.

 

[Jraef]

My best guess those may have been for the Russian market or parts of Europe under the control of the USSR. I say that only because using the neutral as a ground was common in Russia back then. Also the standards have changed significantly all over Europe. Heck even Britian which followed I believe BS7671 I think follows the IEC now (I think), at least with the color schemes. GFCI too are now required on most circuits similar to the way AFCIs are required here. Bosoeker would know better than me one this subject however.

Could have been Czech, I know we had done a lot of work for a company importing specialty machine tools from there at the time, maybe the appliances were for someone at that company.

Now that I think of it though, that boss turned out to be a liar and cheater who ended up blowing his own brains out after getting caught by his wife and then rejected by the girlfriend he got caught with. So it's also entirely possible he was BS'ing me too.

Side note:
Apparently by the way, I have, for 30 years or so, been misusing the term "kahunas", should have been "cojones". My apologies to any native Hawaiians.

 

[weressl]

Some European appliances function better or are made better than American counter parts. Some have desired features, other people just think its better without anything to back it up. And any small European appliance will have much more power, ie hair dryers, toasters ect are limited to 1800 watts in the US while in the EU one can easily find them with 2400watts, 3000 watts, 3500 watts ect. Much higher ratings. I have a German 220 volt 50hz electric Griddle rated about 3000 watts and it makes all the difference. Put in on a NEMA 6-15P no issues so far.

If the appliance has any motor load or mechanical clocks than it will be an issue, however resistive loads wont care. Same with switched mode power supplies, they wont care. I dont think the oven will be an issue in regards to line-line 240 instead of line ground 240. Small chance the neutral could be bonded but highly unlikely. TN-C earthing in Europe has not existed for decades. Some older Russian installs still exist but I doubt this is automatically configured for that.

http://notrickszone.com/2013/10/27/...eu-now-banning-energy-hungry-home-appliances/

 

[PetrosA]

http://notrickszone.com/2013/10/27/...eu-now-banning-energy-hungry-home-appliances/

While I have certain doubts about this too, I also think that this isn't so much an attack against consumers as it is against marketing types. Many appliances are overpowered because the manufacturers got into power wars with each other, resulting in appliances that are way more powerful than they need to be (vacuums and shop vacs are a good example, dryers are another that needs improvement). There is only a handful of energy star rated dryers out there because most use heat rather than moving more air. Battery operated cordless tools and electronically controlled motors are probably having a good impact on the energy use of the construction industry since motor starts are being buffered by the battery, which charges at a relatively steady rate or by the electronics, which reduce the inrush. If you give an engineer the parameters required, he or she needs to make it happen - they can design products to last two or twenty years, they can design a vacuum that will work with a smaller motor. No big deal. The only doubt I have is whether the limits being mandated are based on engineering or wishful thinking.

 

[Besoeker]

http://notrickszone.com/2013/10/27/...eu-now-banning-energy-hungry-home-appliances/

From the link:

A large part of the European citizens have been brainwashed into believing this.

I think that's just wrong.
Most simply wouldn't know abut the rule changes.
It's just more madness from the EU.
There is supposed to be a UK referendum on continued membership of the EU. I'm inclined to think it will get resounding thumbs down vote. Most other Brits I talk to have a pretty dim view of the EU and the constant stream of rules/directives. Some blame almost all ills on the Brussels machine whether warranted or not.

 

[weressl]

While I have certain doubts about this too, I also think that this isn't so much an attack against consumers as it is against marketing types. Many appliances are overpowered because the manufacturers got into power wars with each other, resulting in appliances that are way more powerful than they need to be (vacuums and shop vacs are a good example, dryers are another that needs improvement). There is only a handful of energy star rated dryers out there because most use heat rather than moving more air. Battery operated cordless tools and electronically controlled motors are probably having a good impact on the energy use of the construction industry since motor starts are being buffered by the battery, which charges at a relatively steady rate or by the electronics, which reduce the inrush. If you give an engineer the parameters required, he or she needs to make it happen - they can design products to last two or twenty years, they can design a vacuum that will work with a smaller motor. No big deal. The only doubt I have is whether the limits being mandated are based on engineering or wishful thinking.

You are missing the point.

My link was posted in response to the justification of shipping EU equipment to the States because they are more powerful than the equipment available here. The EU directive is aimed at energy saving.

 

[weressl]

From the link:


I think that's just wrong.
Most simply wouldn't know abut the rule changes.
It's just more madness from the EU.
There is supposed to be a UK referendum on continued membership of the EU. I'm inclined to think it will get resounding thumbs down vote. Most other Brits I talk to have a pretty dim view of the EU and the constant stream of rules/directives. Some blame almost all ills on the Brussels machine whether warranted or not.

Well, the US Commerce Clause is (also) being increasingly used to control people's lives, contrary to the intent of the Founders to have a 'limited Government' that lets people to run their lives as they choose to do so.

This is a missing key element in the EU Charter, thus doomed to failure from the beginning IMO.