fire station receptacle

[L8TRG8TR]

I have a fire station with a kitchen and in that kitchen there's a island .do I have to install a receptacle on it?

 

[infinity]

Is the fire station considered a dwelling unit?

 

[L8TRG8TR]

Good point

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

 

[jwelectric]

Is the fire station considered a dwelling unit?

Dwelling Unit. A single unit, providing complete and independent living facilities for one or more persons, including permanent provisions for living, sleeping, cooking, and sanitation.

It might be if all of the above are fulfilled, wouldn't you say?

 

[kwired]

Dwelling Unit. A single unit, providing complete and independent living facilities for one or more persons, including permanent provisions for living, sleeping, cooking, and sanitation.

It might be if all of the above are fulfilled, wouldn't you say?

I believe that is exactly why he asked.

In the rural areas here we have fire stations with no living quarters. All the firefighters are volunteers that are paged somehow when there is a fire or other call where they are needed. The downside is a little longer response time than if you had people already at the station, but smaller communities in general will have less calls to respond to and less budget to pay people to be at the station full time.

They usually do have kitchen facilities in the station that are used when having meetings or other gatherings at the station, but they do not need to meet dwelling unit kitchen requirements as it is not a dwelling unit.

 

[jumper]

I believe that is exactly why he asked.

In the rural areas here we have fire stations with no living quarters. All the firefighters are volunteers that are paged somehow when there is a fire or other call where they are needed. The downside is a little longer response time than if you had people already at the station, but smaller communities in general will have less calls to respond to and less budget to pay people to be at the station full time.

They usually do have kitchen facilities in the station that are used when having meetings or other gatherings at the station, but they do not need to meet dwelling unit kitchen requirements as it is not a dwelling unit.

Ditto here also.

 

[infinity]

I believe that is exactly why he asked.

In the rural areas here we have fire stations with no living quarters. All the firefighters are volunteers that are paged somehow when there is a fire or other call where they are needed. The downside is a little longer response time than if you had people already at the station, but smaller communities in general will have less calls to respond to and less budget to pay people to be at the station full time.

They usually do have kitchen facilities in the station that are used when having meetings or other gatherings at the station, but they do not need to meet dwelling unit kitchen requirements as it is not a dwelling unit.

Same here, each town having it's own station but no sleeping quarters.

 

[L8TRG8TR]

It has sleeping quarters .its a dwelling unit, but the powers that be are saying if it's not on the print

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

 

[L8TRG8TR]

Just running it by you guy's thanks, they keep saying it's commercial, and let's see the inspection

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

 

[kwired]

It has sleeping quarters .its a dwelling unit, but the powers that be are saying if it's not on the print

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

Did the prints go through any kind of review/inspection for code compliance? Maybe that is where something went wrong.

Print or no print it is still a NEC violation to not have said receptacle if this is indeed a dwelling unit, who is at fault for the violation or how NEC is enforced is a different matter.

 

[GoldDigger]

It has sleeping quarters .its a dwelling unit, but the powers that be are saying if it's not on the print

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

Let's get really tricky with the interpretation:

If the station has sleeping quarters, but the people who sleep there do not have use of the kitchen (e.g. kitchen is only used for meetings, fund raising bake sales, leased to a catering business that shares the space), then the kitchen would not be part of a dwelling unit. That would be a commercial kitchen. And in fact, with no kitchen access the sleeping quarters would not be part of a dwelling unit either.
But if anybody actually believes that is going to be the use of the kitchen, I have some nice oceanfront property in Arizona for them.

For some purposes, like the function of a particular room, the designation on the print may have some relevance. But the NEC definition of dwelling unit does not allow any of that to be taken into consideration.

 

[L8TRG8TR]

Right, the kitchen is the half of it. I had this dropped on me in the trim stage.
1.recepticale spacing in common area
2.hood is a commercial hood with a Ansel but the oven is a residential unit
3.no shunt for the receptacle under the hood



Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

 

[GoldDigger]

Right, the kitchen is the half of it. I had this dropped on me in the trim stage.
...
2.hood is a commercial hood with a Ansel but the oven is a residential unit
...

That one might actually work out, since the residential range may be perfectly acceptable if the kitchen is for a dwelling unit, and the hood is just overkill. Provided that it would be code-acceptable to install the commercial hood in a residential kitchen.
The other two are going to cause you problems. You can always just disconnect the receptacle under the hood.
But keep in mind that there are two different criteria in play here:
1. Is it residential or commercial? (Or maybe even industrial? Or public facility?) All of these have their own separate definitions. (And not necessarily in the NEC.)
2. Is it a dwelling unit? There is an independent definition for that.

You can have commercial (e.g. hotel suite) dwelling units.

 

[charlie b]

Dwelling Unit. A single unit, providing complete and independent living facilities for one or more persons, including permanent provisions for living, sleeping, cooking, and sanitation.It might be if all of the above are fulfilled, wouldn't you say?

I would not say. We had this discussion a few years ago. As I recall, it was one of the very few times that Bob (Iwire) did not agree with me. :happysad: Go figure! :lol:

My view then, and it has not changed, is that a fire station does not, in fact, provide living facilities, notwithstanding the presence of beds and bathrooms. Nobody lives there. People work there, sometimes on 24 hour shifts, and sometimes their duties allow them to spend some of that 24 hours sleeping. It is still not their home. They get off work, and then they go home to their families, just like the rest of us. I think we don't have to read the part of the definition of "dwelling unit" that says, "provisions for . . . sleeping," and conclude that a bed, a toilet, and a stove makes for a dwelling unit. Rather, I think we can stop reading the definition when it reaches the part that says, "independent living facilities." A fire station fails to meet the definition at that point. At the risk of seeming repetitious, I will repeat that the building does not have facilities that enable people to live there.

 

[JDBrown]

Just running it by you guy's thanks, they keep saying it's commercial, and let's see the inspection

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

Keep in mind that if it's commercial, there's a different set of requirements. For example, ALL of the 15-20A, 120V receptacles need GFCI protection (even receptacles for the refrigerator, vent hood, or TV).

 

[L8TRG8TR]

This is one of those places where we need a clear determination on what the building is maybe even its own section

Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk

 

[kwired]

I would not say. We had this discussion a few years ago. As I recall, it was one of the very few times that Bob (Iwire) did not agree with me. :happysad: Go figure! :lol:

My view then, and it has not changed, is that a fire station does not, in fact, provide living facilities, notwithstanding the presence of beds and bathrooms. Nobody lives there. People work there, sometimes on 24 hour shifts, and sometimes their duties allow them to spend some of that 24 hours sleeping. It is still not their home. They get off work, and then they go home to their families, just like the rest of us. I think we don't have to read the part of the definition of "dwelling unit" that says, "provisions for . . . sleeping," and conclude that a bed, a toilet, and a stove makes for a dwelling unit. Rather, I think we can stop reading the definition when it reaches the part that says, "independent living facilities." A fire station fails to meet the definition at that point. At the risk of seeming repetitious, I will repeat that the building does not have facilities that enable people to live there.

Keep in mind that if it's commercial, there's a different set of requirements. For example, ALL of the 15-20A, 120V receptacles need GFCI protection (even receptacles for the refrigerator, vent hood, or TV).

Lets also remember that a hotel room, guest suite or dormitory type applications which may translate to the fire station, may mean 210.60 applies, which does point us back to 210.52 for the kitchen area.


A dwelling unit kitchen within a commercial building doesn't mean the kitchen is a "commercial kitchen".