Gas station generators...........

[GoldDigger]

The guy that runs the small family owned/operated quick shop is going to either:

A:stick around during evacuation because his products are needed and he can make some sales - maybe even more sales than usual.

B: close the doors and get him and his family out of there.

In the case of the quick shop, it makes even more sense to have a generator so that other stuff can be sold too.

 

[iwire]

In the case of the quick shop, it makes even more sense to have a generator so that other stuff can be sold too.

If the employees are trained there is no reason they can't stay open without power.

The key being training.

Most of the supermarkets I work at will have manual credit card machines and slips buried under each registrar but I doubt many folks know how to use them.

Small business owners are generally smart enough to figure out what is worth spending money on and what is not. I think the lack of generators at gas stations and convenience stores is a pretty good indicator that they are not worth it.

Even the large chain supermarkets I work in will generally only have enough generator capacity to run the required lighting along with the point of sale equipment, scales, telephones and PA systems. The refrigeration will not be included. That gives them about a 3 to 4 hour window before product starts to go south.

If it looks like the outage will go longer they will plastic in the open cases, put dry ice in the coolers and call us to hook up a large portable unit.

 

[kbsparky]

....

My guess is that the margins are so darn slim on gas sales that the installation and upkeep of generators makes it unattractive to the owners of the stations. Its not like they could jack the price up during a power failure.

Actually, they CAN jack up the price during a power outage. And they can legally justify it by amortizing the costs associated with installing, maintaining, and operating a generator during those periods.

Which would you rather have when there is an outage? No gas, or available gas at a higher price to cover all those extra costs?

There are a couple of stations around here that remain open during outages, and even with the higher prices during those times, there are long lines of customers waiting to fill up ....

 

[iwire]

Actually, they CAN jack up the price during a power outage.

Not in MA or RI, both states have anti gouging laws preventing that. I posted a link above.

Which would you rather have when there is an outage? No gas, or available gas at a higher price to cover all those extra costs?

It does not matter what I want, around here you can't raise the price of fuel during emergencies.

There are a couple of stations around here that remain open during outages, and even with the higher prices during those times, there are long lines of customers waiting to fill up ....

Here is not there.

 

[Mgraw]

If I remember correctly, Louisiana's law requires the transfer switch be installed and a generator must be available within 24 hours after the storm.

Banks are also required to open one branch in an area within 24 hours after a storm.

In 2008 the state bought hundreds of generators and "loaned" them to grocery stores, pharmacies, and gas stations. Those that did not get a "loaner" were not happy. It was not long after this the law requiring them was passed.

 

[kbsparky]

....Here is not there.

Exactly. We can get gas during such an emergency, while you could not.

 

[iwire]

Exactly. We can get gas during such an emergency, while you could not.

We cannot get gas during at stations with no power. Very true.

But here is where personal responsibility comes in. When a storm is forecast smart New Englanders tank up first. Along with making sure we have the staples we need during the storm.

 

[kbsparky]

And that works as long as you don't need more than one tankful. :roll:

 

[Mgraw]

We cannot get gas during at stations with no power. Very true.

But here is where personal responsibility comes in. When a storm is forecast smart New Englanders tank up first. Along with making sure we have the staples we need during the storm.

That is good. We do that also. However power failures after hurricanes can last weeks. After Katrina my neighborhood took six months.

How long can you survive without food, gasoline, medicine, etc.

 

[iwire]

And that works as long as you don't need more than one tankful. :roll:

You are right, you don't want to live here. Everyone runs out of gas during a storm because we all drive around aimlessly.


It happens I end up driving around during storms to hook up genertors and I have never been in a situtaion where the entire area was dead. You just drive to an area that has power and fill up.

The plow trucks working for the state and towns and emergency vehicles can fill up at the municipal pumps.

Private plowers have to drive to an area with power.

Maybe inconvenient but at least we are not making unfair laws that require certain businesses to pay for something that is for everyone.

 

[iwire]

That is good. We do that also. However power failures after hurricanes can last weeks. After Katrina my neighborhood took six months.

How long can you survive without food, gasoline, medicine, etc.

You can't.

But making unfair laws is not the answer.

 

[Mgraw]

You can't.

But making unfair laws is not the answer.

So what would be "fair"? Require all stations to have generators? I think the state was as "fair" as they could be. They exempted all stations already in business(unless they do a complete tear down and rebuild) and only required new stations on evacuation routes to comply.

 

[goldstar]

Short story. Way back (just before Y-2K) I had installed a portable hook up and manual transfer switch/sub-panel at a local gas station in my town. Several times over the years they've had to use the generator to pump gas. They were the only game in town but never really had any issues until the freak Halloween snow storm in 2011 and then Super Storm Sandy. In the case of SS Sandy there were numerous utility poles & trees down and power was out for over a week. Several issues arise when you're the only station pumping gas in a situation like this :

• If poles are down & power is out, in all likelihood so are the phone and cable lines. That means no credit card sales. Cash only !!! (If you don't think that's a problem what about those people who pull in and say "You know me - my credit is good")
• Getting gas deliveries is a problem until all roads are cleared of trees, poles and debris so gas tankers can get through
• If you're lucky enough to have gas to sell you'll need police presence to organize the lines of cars, otherwise line cutting and fights break out.
• You need personnel available to pump the gas
• Some people will just want to fill gas cans so you'll need a line & a pump just for those
• There may be situations where a station can't buy gas from their usual suppliers so they may have to pay a premium for a gas delivery and as a result you'll pay a premium as well
  

Anyway, my whole point to this is that a portable (rather than an automatic/NG-LP) may be the answer to the pumping gas problem. But you'll have other issues to contend with.

 

[ron]

$13k subsidized for gen and xfer sw

New York Association of Convenience Stores Summary of Provisions of Gas Station Generator Mandate in 2013-14 New York State Budget http://www.nyacs.org/documents/GeneratorBillSummary.pdf

Local TV Station report
http://hudsonvalley.news12.com/news...cerned-about-portable-generator-law-1.6349709

 

[iwire]

So what would be "fair"? Require all stations to have generators? I think the state was as "fair" as they could be. They exempted all stations already in business(unless they do a complete tear down and rebuild) and only required new stations on evacuation routes to comply.

Unfortunatly about the only fair way would be for the govt to pick up the full cost just like the govt maintains the roads that are needed for evacuation.

 

[kwired]

That is good. We do that also. However power failures after hurricanes can last weeks. After Katrina my neighborhood took six months.

How long can you survive without food, gasoline, medicine, etc.

So what would be "fair"? Require all stations to have generators? I think the state was as "fair" as they could be. They exempted all stations already in business(unless they do a complete tear down and rebuild) and only required new stations on evacuation routes to comply.

If the store has been demolished by the storm, the generator probably isn't worth much at that time, but at least they had one and are legal:happyyes:

 

[Mgraw]

If the store has been demolished by the storm, the generator probably isn't worth much at that time, but at least they had one and are legal:happyyes:

Yes but take Katrina for example, If there had been generators at stations on the Westbank of New Orleans we would not have had to bring diesel fuel in by barge from 80 miles away to run our generators. We also brought food and water by barge.

Or how about Gustav in 2008. 48% of the state was without power, much of it for weeks.

 

[kwired]

Yes but take Katrina for example, If there had been generators at stations on the Westbank of New Orleans we would not have had to bring diesel fuel in by barge from 80 miles away to run our generators. We also brought food and water by barge.

Or how about Gustav in 2008. 48% of the state was without power, much of it for weeks.

In an event like Katrina, you may have a generator and still have disrupted fuel supply for the generator. With that kind of widespread disaster if it happened to be a natural gas powered generator there may not be natural gas. I suppose if it were diesel powered the store may sell diesel, but they need diesel to power the generator so they can pump fuel for the generator should it run out of fuel, so you do have to watch things or you have a problem. Eventually they will need to resupply the bulk tanks also or they won't be selling fuel anyway.