Lightning in KSA

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m sleem

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This actually happened in Saudi arabia a month ago, thankfully the consequences were few compared to the event, i was just thinking how we can provide a perfect lightning protection in a country could receive such issues each 20 years.
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don_resqcapt19

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Is there any evidence that such strikes are an issue in buildings that have been constructed with a steel frame?

Every year there are multiple lighting strikes to the tall buildings in Chicago. I have not read reports of damage from the lightning strikes.
 

m sleem

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Health
Is there any evidence that such strikes are an issue in buildings that have been constructed with a steel frame?

Every year there are multiple lighting strikes to the tall buildings in Chicago. I have not read reports of damage from the lightning strikes.
This is first time in my life seeing this strikes, maybe i'm not used to, but really after this i know how the protection systems are required :D
 

K8MHZ

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Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
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This is first time in my life seeing this strikes, maybe i'm not used to, but really after this i know how the protection systems are required :D

Nice pictures!

I can't imagine not seeing lightning until I was an adult. Where I live, we get storms that lightning strikes can be measured in tens or hundreds of strikes per hour. We get them all year long, not many in the winter but on occasion a few.

The sheer mass of the buildings (and large towers) mitigates most damage. Lightning rods and related protection is usually found on buildings made of wood. You may also see large diameter rods on substations.

A friend of mine was taking pictures of a storm a while back and while he was sitting in his van lightning struck it and he got a picture of the strike from the inside!. It wiped out his radio, but otherwise no damage.
 

ggunn

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A friend of mine was taking pictures of a storm a while back and while he was sitting in his van lightning struck it and he got a picture of the strike from the inside!. It wiped out his radio, but otherwise no damage.

How is his hearing?
 

Sahib

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India
How is his hearing?
Probably no ear damage also because only low intensity lightning reach ground directly, if there are tall objects around. Low intensity lightning create low pressure sound waves not affecting the ear.
 

iwire

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Probably no ear damage also because only low intensity lightning reach ground directly, if there are tall objects around. Low intensity lightning create low pressure sound waves not affecting the ear.

Quiet lightning. :slaphead::D:lol:
 

K8MHZ

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How is his hearing?

That is a good question.

I know another person that was within a few feet of a strike and neither mentioned bomb like sound.

I have been close enough to strikes that there was no discernible delay between the flash and the thunder. The thunder wasn't like thunder, more of a very loud whip cracking sound / loud pop. Nothing like being near TNT, which is what it would seem to be like.

I read that the closer one is to a strike, the higher and more narrow banded the frequency of the thunder is. As the acoustic wave gets farther away, the frequency lowers and imparts more of it's energy to the surroundings. Like how a sub woofer acts. That could mean that the perceived intensity of the thunder may be lower very near the strike than say, a 100 feet away. It also may be that some of the initial acoustics are in the ultrasound range right up close, and don't drop into our range of hearing some distance away.

Also, the farther away, the longer the rumble. A couple months ago we had a large lightning storm about 15 miles to the north of us. The strikes were more frequent than the gaps in the thunder, making the thunder sound like one, long continuous rumbling. This went on for at least 5 solid minutes. Maybe ten. It was eerie, even for me and I have been in or near thousands of storms.
 
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K8MHZ

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Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
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Probably no ear damage also because only low intensity lightning reach ground directly, if there are tall objects around. Low intensity lightning create low pressure sound waves not affecting the ear.

Ground to cloud lightning can be the highest intensity of all.

Here is a good explanation from Wiki.

CG (cloud to ground) lightning can occur with both positive and negative polarity. The polarity refers to the polarity of the charge in the region that originated the lightning leaders. An average bolt of negative lightning carries an electric current of 30,000 amperes (30 kA), and transfers 15 coulombs of electric charge and 500 megajoules of energy. Large bolts of lightning can carry up to 120 kA and 350 coulombs.[32]

Unlike the far more common "negative" lightning, positive lightning originates from the positively charged top of the clouds (generally anvil clouds) rather than the lower portion of the storm. Leaders form in the anvil of the cumulonimbus and may travel horizontally for several miles before veering towards the ground. A positive lightning bolt can strike anywhere within several miles of the anvil of the thunderstorm, often in areas experiencing clear or only slightly cloudy skies; they are also known as "bolts from the blue" for this reason.
Positive lightning typically makes up less than 5% of all lightning strikes.[33] Because of the much greater distance to ground, the positively-charged region can develop considerably larger levels of charge levels and voltages than the negative charge regions in the lower part of the cloud. Positive lightning bolts are considerably hotter and longer than negative lightning. They can develop six to ten times the amount of charge and voltage of a negative bolt and the discharge current may last ten times longer.[34] A bolt of positive lightning may carry an electric current of 300 kA and the potential at the top of the cloud may exceed a billion volts ? about 10 times that of negative lightning.[35] During a positive lightning strike, huge quantities of extremely low frequency (ELF) and very low frequency (VLF) radio waves are generated.[36]

As a result of their greater power, as well as lack of warning, positive lightning strikes are considerably more dangerous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning#Types
 

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
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Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
Probably no ear damage also because only low intensity lightning reach ground directly, if there are tall objects around. Low intensity lightning create low pressure sound waves not affecting the ear.
When I was a kid I was standing in the doorway of a friend's house when lightning struck a pole mounted transformer across the street. I don't know if I have ever, to this day, heard anything else that loud, and I have been to a Ritchie Blackmore's Rainbow concert.
 

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
As the acoustic wave gets farther away, the frequency lowers and imparts more of it's energy to the surroundings. Like how a sub woofer acts.
The idea that low frequency waves made by a speaker "develop" over distance is a myth. In some rooms it may seem that way because of reflections and standing waves but in free space the intensity of low frequency sound falls off exponentially with distance just like any other sound.

I'm a bass player, BTW. Low frequency sound is my domain. :D
 

GoldDigger

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And you should also be aware that sound intensity (acoustic watts per unit area) falls off as the inverse square of the distance from a point radiator.
Calling the falloff exponential is only correct.if the distance appears in the exponent of the expression.
It is all too common to use the term "exponential" for anything that falls off or increases faster than just geometrically (first power), but that is both careless and misleading.
JMNSHO. :)

PS: At bass frequencies in open air almost anything acts like a point source, unless it is acting like a dipole instead (open backed speaker, for example). And a dipole really sucks for bass.
That might even be exponential. :)

Tapatalk...
 
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K8MHZ

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Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
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Electrician
The idea that low frequency waves made by a speaker "develop" over distance is a myth. In some rooms it may seem that way because of reflections and standing waves but in free space the intensity of low frequency sound falls off exponentially with distance just like any other sound.

I'm a bass player, BTW. Low frequency sound is my domain. :D

I did some checking and found that the frequency doesn't actually lower, it's that distances filter out the higher pitched frequencies so at a distance only the low frequency sound is heard, aka, the rumble.

Close up, the sound is a clap and boom, which can vary greatly in intensity depending on the energy of the strike that caused it.

I guess using a speaker as a comparison to a bolt of lightning may not have been a good choice.
 

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
And you should also be aware that sound intensity (acoustic watts per unit area) falls off as the inverse square of the distance from a point radiator.
Calling the falloff exponential is only correct.if the distance appears in the exponent of the expression.
It is all too common to use the term "exponential" for anything that falls off or increases faster than just geometrically (first power), but that is both careless and misleading.
JMNSHO. :)

PS: At bass frequencies in open air almost anything acts like a point source, unless it is acting like a dipole instead (open backed speaker, for example). And a dipole really sucks for bass.
That might even be exponential. :)

Tapatalk...
I apologize for my careless and misleading remarks. I am pond scum. :p
 

GoldDigger

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Which brings us naturally to the subject of low frequency sounds emitted by frogs.
I bow to your expertise in that area.

BTW, you were about the fifth person in the last week to make that error, and so became the object of my pent up frustration....
;)

Tapatalk...
 

Sahib

Senior Member
Location
India
Quiet lightning. :slaphead::D:lol:
Low intensity lightning creates relatively low pressure sound waves. But it does not mean there is no noise. It will feel like the sound of a big cracker going off.
 
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Sahib

Senior Member
Location
India
Ground to cloud lightning can be the highest intensity of all.
The highest intensity ground to cloud lightning can happen,if there were no nearby tall object to intercept it. In other words, it takes place on open ground.

If that is not true, there is no sense in providing lightning protection.
 

K8MHZ

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Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
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Electrician
The highest intensity ground to cloud lightning can happen,if there were no nearby tall object to intercept it. In other words, it takes place on open ground.

If that is not true, there is no sense in providing lightning protection.

A tall object won't change the intensity of a strike by any noticeable amount.

Lightning protection is not provided on all buildings or structures. Sometimes, the building or structure is it's own protection due to the sheer size of it.

The tallest structure in our area is a 660 foot tall smoke stack that has no protection and gets struck all the time and suffers no damage.

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Lightning also strikes the surface of the water in the lakes. Lightning is very hazardous to boaters.

Here is a video of lightning striking water near the person taking the video. The sound is on, please note the frequency of the sound and the lack of bass rumble and intensity. For all intents and purposes, this is actually 'quiet lightning'.

http://www.accuweather.com/en/features/trend/video-texas-boater-films-dange/18843689

Even though those strikes were low intensity, they still have enough energy to be fatal to a person being struck.
 
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