queens breaker

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GoldDigger

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I ran into my code teacher tonight when i was in my transfomers class and tried to pry some hints out of him. And all he said was "its a type of overcurrent device. And he has a early 1900's code book that has articals on queens breakers". Idk if the nec goes back that far. And it was a verbel question so idk if its queens or queen's.Google has shown no light on the subject. I dont think it has anything to do with the vacuum or a dishwasher any more. I also dont think its anything like a nail bit. Lol
I seem to recall that at least two of the senior members have extensive collections of old NEC, handbooks and even pre-NEC guides and codes. Maybe one of them recalls the queens breaker or can find it in an index?
 

Daja7

Senior Member
I ran into my code teacher tonight when i was in my transfomers class and tried to pry some hints out of him. And all he said was "its a type of overcurrent device. And he has a early 1900's code book that has articals on queens breakers". Idk if the nec goes back that far. And it was a verbel question so idk if its queens or queen's.Google has shown no light on the subject. I dont think it has anything to do with the vacuum or a dishwasher any more. I also dont think its anything like a nail bit. Lol

I guess it may be fun for the instructor to flaunt his knowledge of the obsure, however i would be rather annoyed that he is wasting my my time with a 100 year old obsure term that has absolutly no relavance to what i should be learning. mention it, explain it and move on. Just my single minded opinion.
 

milemaker13

Senior Member
Heres a guess from left field.. As mentioned, slang from old neighborhoods. Perhaps the old Sparkys in NY (Queens in particular) had a way of using a fusable link kind of OCP? Like saying a "NY Reload" Not actually a reload at all.. The cops carried 2 guns.

Maybe just a small guage wire intended to burn away as OCP?? Not an actuall breaker, just a short , thin wire?
 

milemaker13

Senior Member
I guess it may be fun for the instructor to flaunt his knowledge of the obsure, however i would be rather annoyed that he is wasting my my time with a 100 year old obsure term that has absolutly no relavance to what i should be learning. mention it, explain it and move on. Just my single minded opinion.

I disagree. Extra credit is just that. The teacher is providing an opertunity to shine brighter, not a pitfall to slow your learning. Just one mans opinion.
 

K8MHZ

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Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
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Electrician
Heres a guess from left field.. As mentioned, slang from old neighborhoods. Perhaps the old Sparkys in NY (Queens in particular) had a way of using a fusable link kind of OCP? Like saying a "NY Reload" Not actually a reload at all.. The cops carried 2 guns.

Maybe just a small guage wire intended to burn away as OCP?? Not an actuall breaker, just a short , thin wire?

How would a localized slang term make it into the NEC?
 

K8MHZ

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Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
I disagree. Extra credit is just that. The teacher is providing an opertunity to shine brighter, not a pitfall to slow your learning. Just one mans opinion.

I think the point that was attempted was the extra credit work should at least be applicable to the trade, and digging around for a no longer used, possibly localized, century plus old slang term is not.

It's kind of like offering extra credit to an electrical apprentice to find out something about karate that hasn't been used or done in 100 years. Sure, it's work and imparts a bit of knowledge, but nothing applicable to the trade.
 

kwired

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NE Nebraska
How would a localized slang term make it into the NEC?
If NFPA was always headquartered in the northeast, I could see earlier editions using more slang and especially from that region since it's origins were there, confusion likely resulted when someone did not know what the slang meant though. The past 40 years or so they have tried real hard to not use any kind of slang

I think the point that was attempted was the extra credit work should at least be applicable to the trade, and digging around for a no longer used, possibly localized, century plus old slang term is not.

It's kind of like offering extra credit to an electrical apprentice to find out something about karate that hasn't been used or done in 100 years. Sure, it's work and imparts a bit of knowledge, but nothing applicable to the trade.
Well if we need to disregard 100+ year old information then we have a lot of basic theory we need to throw out, and this goes for direct electrical as well as other related physics:p
 

K8MHZ

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Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
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Electrician
If NFPA was always headquartered in the northeast, I could see earlier editions using more slang and especially from that region since it's origins were there, confusion likely resulted when someone did not know what the slang meant though. The past 40 years or so they have tried real hard to not use any kind of slang

Well if we need to disregard 100+ year old information then we have a lot of basic theory we need to throw out, and this goes for direct electrical as well as other related physics:p

After looking through the 1896 and 1901 NEC, I am beginning to doubt any reference to a 'queen's breaker' in the NEC. Perhaps the term came from a local (non-NEC) code book.

The question is not about theory or physics, it's about a slang or trade name that has no relevance today, and may not have had any relevance back then to most of the country, either.
 

milemaker13

Senior Member
I think the point that was attempted was the extra credit work should at least be applicable to the trade, and digging around for a no longer used, possibly localized, century plus old slang term is not.

It's kind of like offering extra credit to an electrical apprentice to find out something about karate that hasn't been used or done in 100 years. Sure, it's work and imparts a bit of knowledge, but nothing applicable to the trade.

I see your point.. Hmmm...but if the EC was relevant, shouldn't it just be part of his normal curriculum? Lol.
I am really curious now what it may be... Perhaps something from across the pond? A jester holding two wires?
 

junkhound

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Location
Renton, WA
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EE, power electronics specialty
King switch is a major disconnect, could be also termed 'king breaker'

Queen switches are secondary switches controlling sections of loads, possibly terminology passed over to use as 'Queen's breaker' ?

Never heard the term 'Queens breaker' specifically, but have heard the term 'queen switch' used many years ago.

In my grandmothers house wired in 1913, the king switch was a double pole knife switch , that was followed by a single double pole ceramic holders that fed ALL the K&T wiring, the ceramic block had terminals to install a piece of solder to function as the fuse.

Have also heard the term 'keystone fuse' used for the service entrance fuse. The old double pole ceramic block from grandma's house I have shows a keystone shaped symbol with a 'mPc' logo and a '1184' part number.

"Queens breaker" may be a local rendition of the above terminology.

I also did a 2 minute bing and google search for 'queen+ knob and tube' etc, did not find any specific non-brand generic 'queens breaker' reference .
 

K8MHZ

Senior Member
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Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
King switch is a major disconnect, could be also termed 'king breaker'

Queen switches are secondary switches controlling sections of loads, possibly terminology passed over to use as 'Queen's breaker' ?

Never heard the term 'Queens breaker' specifically, but have heard the term 'queen switch' used many years ago.

In my grandmothers house wired in 1913, the king switch was a double pole knife switch , that was followed by a single double pole ceramic holders that fed ALL the K&T wiring, the ceramic block had terminals to install a piece of solder to function as the fuse.

Have also heard the term 'keystone fuse' used for the service entrance fuse. The old double pole ceramic block from grandma's house I have shows a keystone shaped symbol with a 'mPc' logo and a '1184' part number.

"Queens breaker" may be a local rendition of the above terminology.

I also did a 2 minute bing and google search for 'queen+ knob and tube' etc, did not find any specific non-brand generic 'queens breaker' reference .

Knife switches used to be called circuit breakers in the very old NEC's.
 

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
And that is what they did - break the circuit.

From the pictures I have seen of antique electrical equipment, it seems that 'circuit breakers' were switches, sometimes with fuses, rated to open or close a full circuit under a load. All that I have seen were knife switches which have lots of contact area and lots of space between contacts. Plain old switches were just for individual loads, apparently.

Edit to add: Correction. I did see a panel in an old train depot that had fused switches in it where the switches were enclosed.
 

junkhound

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Location
Renton, WA
Occupation
EE, power electronics specialty
King fuse? circa 1914.

I took this out of grandma's house when I rewired part of it almost 50 years ago. 15A, 110V, no labels on what size solder to use. To my knowledge, the solder shown is the original from 1914, never recall ever having to replace in grandma's house.

This was the ONLY fuse in the house until an electric range added in the '40s. Knife switch upstream. No original grounds of any type unless one counts the old gas piping that the wires were pulled thru.

ry%3D480


PS: all the black is coal soot residue, the 'electric panel' was above the coal bin and gravity coal furnace. Central IL high sulphur coal.
 
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Jraef

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From the pictures I have seen of antique electrical equipment, it seems that 'circuit breakers' were switches, sometimes with fuses, rated to open or close a full circuit under a load. ...
That makes sense to me. I know I've seen old Siemens /ITE literature on electrical equipment where the devices we now call "Circuit Breakers" where originally called "AUTOMATIC Circuit Breakers" when ITE released them (for those who don't know, ITE stood for "Inverse Time Element", the basis of thermal trip units used in all CBs and most thermal OLs for decades, until electronics started to displace them recently). I don't know when the "Atomatic" was dropped and switches became just switches, but I'd be willing to bet it was some time shortly after everyone else jumped on the ITE bandwagon to make "Automatic" circuit breakers. It's likely that once everyone was selling them, it would become confusing to have two totally different types of devices with similar names.
 

GoldDigger

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Off the wall suggestion:
The knife switch for the smoking/billiard room was the king's breaker, while the switch for the kitchen was the queen's breaker. ;)


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