Different acting 150w metal halide lamp?

[GerryB]

I had to troubleshoot some parking lot pole lights today, four 150 watt metal halide the shoebox fixtures. So trying to get some info from the owner with a heavy Italian accent,very nice guy, apparently one light was full of water, he changed the bulb, swung down the cover, water on his head, funny, ok. So I get up that light, turn the bulb a bit and it comes on. Ok, loose bulb. I go to the next light, bulb seems tight, back it out a quarter turn and back in, it comes on. Ok, ehh? bad connection. I go to the third light and the bulb is cracked in half inside the fixture. The fourth light the bulb is black. All the while I'm checking the last two poles the first two are burning bright as can be. Ok, need two new bulbs. So to make a long story (or a four hour four light bulb job) short, I relamp the last two lights, turn them on and the other two don't work. SO up and down the poles with the ladder balanced on the 6 " surface and the Italian guy with his arms wrapped around the ladder to steady it we figured out the other two bulbs were no good either. So has anyone had this happen to them? Every bad HPS or MH or MV bulb I've ever seen either didn't light at all or came on, got hot, went out, cooled off and came on again. I was thinking ballasts, but new lamps seem ok.

 

[GoldDigger]

First question is whether the ballast is right for the supply voltage and lamp type you are using.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

 

[iwire]

Here is my method.

Install new lamp.

If it works I am done.

If it does not work install new ballast kit and new lamp.


I am not a forensic investigator and do not waste a lot of time with fixtures.

 

[GoldDigger]

Would you do that if you had a problem with 8 out of 8 fixtures, or would you figure that maybe something was behind it?

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

 

[iwire]

You think being called for 8 out 8 not working is odd?


Of course I would check voltage vs ballast rating but 99 out of 100 times it is just lack of up keep.

 

[iwire]

I will add that literally everything the OP describes leads me to lack of proper up keep.

 

[kwired]

, I relamp the last two lights, turn them on and the other two don't work.

Were they off for a short duration after being up to full illumination? It takes time for internal pressure to drop enough to allow restarting the arc. HPS will usually restart in a minute or two, MH can be 10 minutes or even up to 20 minutes before they will restart.

 

[LEO2854]

You think being called for 8 out 8 not working is odd?


Of course I would check voltage vs ballast rating but 99 out of 100 times it is just lack of up keep.

I went to a Job 23 of 24 250 watt metal halide lamps in the shoe box fixtures had burned out to the point the lamps shattered.:slaphead:.:lol:

And everyone of them the screw shell was seized :happyno:

The 24th was just about ready to do the same.

 

[kwired]

I went to a Job 23 of 24 250 watt metal halide lamps in the shoe box fixtures had burned out to the point the lamps shattered.:slaphead:.:lol:

And everyone of them the screw shell was seized :happyno:

The 24th was just about ready to do the same.

Lamps rated for open style fixtures are not supposed to do that, but those rated only for enclosed lamps can do that. I think it is more common in cases where the power is never cycled. Did the ones in your instance maybe have defective controls and were "always on" - this is assuming they are outdoor fixtures and would typically turn off during daylight.

 

[LEO2854]

I had to troubleshoot some parking lot pole lights today, four 150 watt metal halide the shoebox fixtures. So trying to get some info from the owner with a heavy Italian accent,very nice guy, apparently one light was full of water, he changed the bulb, swung down the cover, water on his head, funny, ok. So I get up that light, turn the bulb a bit and it comes on. Ok, loose bulb. I go to the next light, bulb seems tight, back it out a quarter turn and back in, it comes on. Ok, ehh? bad connection. I go to the third light and the bulb is cracked in half inside the fixture. The fourth light the bulb is black. All the while I'm checking the last two poles the first two are burning bright as can be. Ok, need two new bulbs. So to make a long story (or a four hour four light bulb job) short, I relamp the last two lights, turn them on and the other two don't work. SO up and down the poles with the ladder balanced on the 6 " surface and the Italian guy with his arms wrapped around the ladder to steady it we figured out the other two bulbs were no good either. So has anyone had this happen to them? Every bad HPS or MH or MV bulb I've ever seen either didn't light at all or came on, got hot, went out, cooled off and came on again. I was thinking ballasts, but new lamps seem ok.

Gerry; keep in mind that Metal Halide lamps need lots of time to cool before restarting from 5- 30 minutes.

Also make sure your lamps match the ANSI rating on the ballasts,so if you see M107 on the lamp, the ballast should have M107 on it too.

 

[RLyons]

Here is my method.

Install new lamp.

If it works I am done.

If it does not work install new ballast kit and new lamp.


I am not a forensic investigator and do not waste a lot of time with fixtures.

I use to think this way also...I no longer do as it has bit me.
250W Pulse bulb that worked for god knows how long on a 400W sodium ballast. Ok switch to 400 sodium bulb right? Don't forget to mention ballast is wired for 240 on a 120v circuit.
I am going to be a forensic investigator to a point all the while charging customers for the lack of knowledge of their maintenance and other times I end up changing bulbs and ballasts to match other fixtures to make it more idiot proof.

 

[LEO2854]

Lamps rated for open style fixtures are not supposed to do that, but those rated only for enclosed lamps can do that. I think it is more common in cases where the power is never cycled. Did the ones in your instance maybe have defective controls and were "always on" - this is assuming they are outdoor fixtures and would typically turn off during daylight.

Yup they were in an enclosed fixture parking lot lights on a working photocell controlling a lighting contractor with a bypass switch,so it's possible that they had been running 24/7 however the switch was off at that time,and it was a new owner of that building that generated that call.

I rented a bucket truck and went up looked and called in lamps and ballasts to the supply house on the Big brick Nextel phone (1999)and they had everything in stock,which is a miracle at any time. :lol:

So the job ended up being just lamps so they took back the ballasts no problem at the time.

This ended up being a really good client until he sold the building.

 

[iwire]

I use to think this way also...I no longer do as it has bit me.
250W Pulse bulb that worked for god knows how long on a 400W sodium ballast. Ok switch to 400 sodium bulb right? Don't forget to mention ballast is wired for 240 on a 120v circuit.
I am going to be a forensic investigator to a point all the while charging customers for the lack of knowledge of their maintenance and other times I end up changing bulbs and ballasts to match other fixtures to make it more idiot proof.

It amazes me that any one would call verifying voltage and lamp type 'troubleshooting'.

To me that is part of the job when ordering new parts. Like Leo I use the ANSI numbers to match lamps with ballasts.

What I meant was I do not play games trying to determine if it is a ballast, an igniter or the capacitor.

 

[jumper]

Here is my method.

Install new lamp.

If it works I am done.

If it does not work install new ballast kit and new lamp.


I am not a forensic investigator and do not waste a lot of time with fixtures.

Ditto.

 

[GerryB]

Were they off for a short duration after being up to full illumination? It takes time for internal pressure to drop enough to allow restarting the arc. HPS will usually restart in a minute or two, MH can be 10 minutes or even up to 20 minutes before they will restart.

That's good to know. I didn't know MH takes longer to cool and start again. What threw me was the first two came on when I fiddled with them and stayed on for at least a half hour while I took the other two lamps out and we checked a bulb store for replacements. The poles themselves were fairly knew and in good shape, RAB brand, you could easily see the nameplate and that they had the right lamps in there. A side note: Is 150 an oddball size? My supply houses charged more for the 150 than say a 175.

 

[kwired]

It amazes me that any one would call verifying voltage and lamp type 'troubleshooting'.

To me that is part of the job when ordering new parts. Like Leo I use the ANSI numbers to match lamps with ballasts.

What I meant was I do not play games trying to determine if it is a ballast, an igniter or the capacitor.

Sorry but when you have multivolt tapped ballasts, you may need to take the extra step to verify what the applied voltage is vs what voltage the existing ballast is connected for. If you discover the connected tap and applied voltage do not match, how can you not call that troubleshooting? Or depending on the circumstances even a quick look at all the connections to make sure the ignitor, capacitor, lamp are connected to the correct leads is still troubleshooting.

Now I do understand for a luminaire that is located where access requires a lift of some kind that it often is easier to just replace everything instead of playing the game of installing just one component, only to be called right back because the light has failed again. You may still need to verify you have correct voltage in many cases which is troubleshooting.

 

[jumper]

A side note: Is 150 an oddball size? My supply houses charged more for the 150 than say a 175.

In my experience, yes. Installed hundreds of 175W and no 150W. 175W is a very common size.

 

[kwired]

In my experience, yes. Installed hundreds of 175W and no 150W. 175W is a very common size.

I think 175 watt is (almost) always probe start, and 150 watt is (almost) always pulse start. I think it has gotten harder to find new luminaires with 175 watt lamps as they have switched to the pulse start in most cases.

 

[iwire]

Sorry but when you have multivolt tapped ballasts, you may need to take the extra step to verify what the applied voltage is vs what voltage the existing ballast is connected for. If you discover the connected tap and applied voltage do not match, how can you not call that troubleshooting?

I call that as basic as walking, not 'troubleshooting'. You are free to call it whatever you want.

 

[jumper]

I think 175 watt is (almost) always probe start, and 150 watt is (almost) always pulse start. I think it has gotten harder to find new luminaires with 175 watt lamps as they have switched to the pulse start in most cases.

Thanks.

Did not know that, my experience is based on older site, building, and street lighting in which 175, 250, and 400W was the norm in my area. Guess things have changed