Different acting 150w metal halide lamp?

[kwired]

I call that as basic as walking, not 'troubleshooting'. You are free to call it whatever you want.

Many people have learned to walk, doesn't mean they all know about checking voltage applied to a piece of equipment

 

[mgookin]

I had to troubleshoot some parking lot pole lights today, four 150 watt metal halide the shoebox fixtures. So trying to get some info from the owner with a heavy Italian accent,very nice guy, apparently one light was full of water, he changed the bulb, swung down the cover, water on his head, funny, ok. So I get up that light, turn the bulb a bit and it comes on. Ok, loose bulb. I go to the next light, bulb seems tight, back it out a quarter turn and back in, it comes on. Ok, ehh? bad connection. I go to the third light and the bulb is cracked in half inside the fixture. The fourth light the bulb is black. All the while I'm checking the last two poles the first two are burning bright as can be. Ok, need two new bulbs. So to make a long story (or a four hour four light bulb job) short, I relamp the last two lights, turn them on and the other two don't work. SO up and down the poles with the ladder balanced on the 6 " surface and the Italian guy with his arms wrapped around the ladder to steady it we figured out the other two bulbs were no good either. So has anyone had this happen to them? Every bad HPS or MH or MV bulb I've ever seen either didn't light at all or came on, got hot, went out, cooled off and came on again. I was thinking ballasts, but new lamps seem ok.

The on and off cycling is end of life of the bulb because the bulb is running out of gas. Many people think the control is getting "flashback" and causing this but that's very rare, compartively. The on and off cycling is hard on the ballast too. A waveform of all this repetitive inrush is eye opening as well.

One public utility we deal with has 750,000 outdoor lights in their lease light program. They do a 4.3 year service interval and replace the bulb, ballast and control every time because the most expensive part is the bucket truck trip charge.

 

[LEO2854]

That's good to know. I didn't know MH takes longer to cool and start again. What threw me was the first two came on when I fiddled with them and stayed on for at least a half hour while I took the other two lamps out and we checked a bulb store for replacements. The poles themselves were fairly knew and in good shape, RAB brand, you could easily see the nameplate and that they had the right lamps in there. A side note: Is 150 an oddball size? My supply houses charged more for the 150 than say a 175.

The 150 watt is supposed to replace the 175 watt lamps,so they cost more,and also have a shorter lifespan 10,000 hours for the 150 watt lamps verses 15,000 hours for most of the 175 watt lamps,hopefully they fix that problem.

 

[ActionDave]

Here is my method.

Install new lamp.

If it works I am done.

If it does not work install new ballast kit and new lamp.


I am not a forensic investigator and do not waste a lot of time with fixtures.

Same for me too also, with one addition. If it one of those plastic, shoebox fixtures and the lamp doesn't fix it I go straight to a new fixture. Cost for the fixture is about the same as a ballast kit and is easier to install.

 

[GerryB]

Gerry; keep in mind that Metal Halide lamps need lots of time to cool before restarting from 5- 30 minutes.

Also make sure your lamps match the ANSI rating on the ballasts,so if you see M107 on the lamp, the ballast should have M107 on it too.

Didn't know anything about that, but I see from the picture I took 150W MH ED28 ANSI M107/m57. Oh now I see also in highlighted caps Caution-Risk of fire, relamp with 150w mh ed28 ansi m1078/57 mogul base. Now i'll have to check the other two lamps when I pick them up on Monday.

 

[RLyons]

It amazes me that any one would call verifying voltage and lamp type 'troubleshooting'.

To me that is part of the job when ordering new parts. Like Leo I use the ANSI numbers to match lamps with ballasts.

What I meant was I do not play games trying to determine if it is a ballast, an igniter or the capacitor.

I apologize for reading it wrong. The way I read it was, put in new lamp and if it works you are done.
Glad I could amaze now all I need to do is astound. :roll:

 

[LEO2854]

Didn't know anything about that, but I see from the picture I took 150W MH ED28 ANSI M107/m57. Oh now I see also in highlighted caps Caution-Risk of fire, relamp with 150w mh ed28 ansi m1078/57 mogul base. Now i'll have to check the other two lamps when I pick them up on Monday.

Yup and don't let them push the wrong lamps on you.

 

[kwired]

The on and off cycling is end of life of the bulb because the bulb is running out of gas. Many people think the control is getting "flashback" and causing this but that's very rare, compartively. The on and off cycling is hard on the ballast too. A waveform of all this repetitive inrush is eye opening as well.

One public utility we deal with has 750,000 outdoor lights in their lease light program. They do a 4.3 year service interval and replace the bulb, ballast and control every time because the most expensive part is the bucket truck trip charge.

I don't know if MH lamps cycle like that, but HPS definitely do. From my understanding, a HPS lamp draws more current as it ages (operation time wise). At end of life it draws enough current the ballast can no longer deliver enough current to maintain the arc. When pressure in the arc tube drops enough the arc will restart and the process starts all over again. At first the time between cycles is long but as the lamp begins to draw even more current the cycles will get shorter.

 

[LEO2854]

I don't know if MH lamps cycle like that, but HPS definitely do. From my understanding, a HPS lamp draws more current as it ages (operation time wise). At end of life it draws enough current the ballast can no longer deliver enough current to maintain the arc. When pressure in the arc tube drops enough the arc will restart and the process starts all over again. At first the time between cycles is long but as the lamp begins to draw even more current the cycles will get shorter.

And sometimes they get much brighter at the point they lose the arc,it all depends on how much the ballast can really take.

 

[kwired]

And sometimes they get much brighter at the point they lose the arc,it all depends on how much the ballast can really take.

Makes sense, if current is increasing light output may very well increase.

 

[GerryB]

Yup and don't let them push the wrong lamps on you.

Finally changed the other two bulbs today. They were not ANSI M107/M57, they were MH150/MOG

 

[GerryB]

Yup and don't let them push the wrong lamps on you.

Finally changed the other two bulbs today. They were not ANSI M107/M57, they were MH150/MOG

SP05/10.

 

[jeremysterling]

The new lamps were most likely ANSI M102.

 

[kwired]

Finally changed the other two bulbs today. They were not ANSI M107/M57, they were MH150/MOG

I don't think you found the number you were looking for. MH150/MOG sounds like it means metal halide,150 watt, mogul base, and not the ANSI number, jeremy may be right on what ANSI you likely had there.

 

[GerryB]

I don't think you found the number you were looking for. MH150/MOG sounds like it means metal halide,150 watt, mogul base, and not the ANSI number, jeremy may be right on what ANSI you likely had there.

OK, nothing else on the lamp but Satco/hygrade. What does the number mean, something to do with the pressure?

 

[kwired]

OK, nothing else on the lamp but Satco/hygrade. What does the number mean, something to do with the pressure?

I don't know that the lamp would need to have an ANSI number marked on it, but if you get manufacturers information you can probably cross reference it somehow to get ANSI information - provided the lamp you have meets ANSI standards.

ANSI=American National Standards Institute. For metal halide lamps it is usually just an M and a number, H for mercury lamps and S for sodium lamps but the number usually has no direct correlation to lamp wattage either, that would be too simple. Ballast may have more than one ANSI lamp designation if it can power multiple lamps though.