Dedicated Electrical Space

[kwired]

334.15 Exposed Work. In exposed work, except as provided
in 300.11(A), cable shall be installed as specified in
334.15(A) through (C).

(C) In Unfinished Basements and Crawl Spaces. Where
cable is run at angles with joists in unfinished basements
and crawl spaces, it shall be permissible to secure cables
not smaller than two 6 AWG or three 8 AWG conductors
directly to the lower edges of the joists. Smaller cables
shall be run either through bored holes in joists or on running
boards.

I don't disagree with what is written there, what I don't know is exactly what I am looking at in the photo. It may comply, it may not, as I don't know just what this area is in the photo. All I see is what looks like a HVAC duct of some kind, some thermal insulation and a little framing. Is it exposed, an unfinished basement, an attic, it doesn't look like the underside of floor joists unless the picture is upside down.

OK, I looked at photo again, maybe it is looking up at an open ceiling in a basement or similar, I just wasn't seeing it before and had no idea what I was looking at. Just a little more zoom out maybe would have made it more obvious a little quicker.

 

[GoldDigger]

... it doesn't look like the underside of floor joists unless the picture is upside down.

The pipe hanger makes me think that the picture is looking up at the corner of ceiling and wall, and that the hanger is attached to a joist.

 

[kwired]

The pipe hanger makes me think that the picture is looking up at the corner of ceiling and wall, and that the hanger is attached to a joist.

That is kind of what got me to noticing that it may be the underside of a floor joist as that is just about the only place you will see that kind of hanger used, didn't catch my attention earlier though.

 

[jxofaltrds]

View attachment 9528

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I don't disagree with what is written there, what I don't know is exactly what I am looking at in the photo. It may comply, it may not, as I don't know just what this area is in the photo. All I see is what looks like a HVAC duct of some kind, some thermal insulation and a little framing. Is it exposed, an unfinished basement, an attic, it doesn't look like the underside of floor joists unless the picture is upside down.

Not to be smart but do you see the CPVC on the right? Normally not installed in attics. Same with the metal ductwork.

Gas lines normally enter near grade.

See the joist hanger for the black iron?

Also the 'blanket' on the block walls.

 

[Fliz]

This is what the inspector is talking about:

110.26(E)(1). Indoor installations shall comply with 110.26E(1)(a) through (E)(1)(d).

(a) Dedicated electrical space. The space equal to the width and depth of the equipment and extending from the floor to a height of 6 ft. above the equipment or to the structural ceiling, whichever i lower, shall be dedicated to the electrical installation. No piping, ducts, leak protection apparatus, or other equipment foreign to the electrical installation shall be located in this zone.

What this code section is saying is that there needs to be space above the equipment reserved only for electrical equipment. The plumbing pipe is in violation of this, however, enclosing it in drywall will do nothing to achieve compliance. The only way to keep the pipe there and be compliant is to actually lower the structural ceiling.

On the other hand, 110.26(E)(1)(b) states clearly that foreign systems are allowed if the equipment below will be protected from any damage to the foreign system. For a plumbing pipe, to follow the letter of the code, you would have to install an apparatus to prevent any leaks from damaging the equipment. You could install NEMA 5 or NEMA 6 equipment below to meet this. Again, drywall will not prevent leaks.

In my opinion, if there are no plumbing joints above the panel and the plumbing has been there for a long time and this is a remodel, its probably ok. Otherwise the plumber should move it since its probably also a violation of the plumbing code.

 

[GoldDigger]

This is what the inspector is talking about:

110.26(E)(1). Indoor installations shall comply with 110.26E(1)(a) through (E)(1)(d).

(a) Dedicated electrical space. The space equal to the width and depth of the equipment and extending from the floor to a height of 6 ft. above the equipment or to the structural ceiling, whichever i lower, shall be dedicated to the electrical installation. No piping, ducts, leak protection apparatus, or other equipment foreign to the electrical installation shall be located in this zone.

What this code section is saying is that there needs to be space above the equipment reserved only for electrical equipment. The plumbing pipe is in violation of this, however, enclosing it in drywall will do nothing to achieve compliance. The only way to keep the pipe there and be compliant is to actually lower the structural ceiling.

On the other hand, 110.26(E)(1)(b) states clearly that foreign systems are allowed if the equipment below will be protected from any damage to the foreign system. For a plumbing pipe, to follow the letter of the code, you would have to install an apparatus to prevent any leaks from damaging the equipment. You could install NEMA 5 or NEMA 6 equipment below to meet this. Again, drywall will not prevent leaks.

In my opinion, if there are no plumbing joints above the panel and the plumbing has been there for a long time and this is a remodel, its probably ok. Otherwise the plumber should move it since its probably also a violation of the plumbing code.

I think that you may be missing the point that I think is at issue here, namely the difference between the dedicated electrical space which extends directly above the equipment but not in front of it and the workspace requirement which extends above an area in front of the equipment.

From the OP:

... this plumbing pipe is not directly above the panel but it is above the panel and about 6 inches in front.

 

[Fliz]

I think that you may be missing the point that I think is at issue here, namely the difference between the dedicated electrical space which extends directly above the equipment but not in front of it and the workspace requirement which extends above an area in front of the equipment.

From the OP:

Oh ok got it, wrote up that whole reply for nothing.

 

[GoldDigger]

Oh ok got it, wrote up that whole reply for nothing.

Good practice though!