Clearance Above Panels

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ASG

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I'm having trouble with 110.26(F). Based on this I can't have a duct 4' above the panel because it interferes with the height clearance (what is the purpose of 6' anyway?). But if I recess the panel, how do the wall and the studs not make the clearance non-code compliant? If I had a this duct above a panel mounted on a wall, would furring out the wall to make the panel recessed now make the installation code complaint?
 
ASG said:
... But if I recess the panel, how do the wall and the studs not make the clearance non-code compliant? ...
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I have raised that same question an number of times...it remains my opinion that recessed panels are not code compliant.
 
You can argue, as Charlie B. has, that the wording of the rule does not include the top plates...
110.26(E)....No piping, ducts, leak protection apparatus, or other equipment foreign to the electrical installation shall be located in this zone.
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...but that wording does not seem to include suspended ceilings, either, and the CMP included an exception for the ceiling.
Exception: Suspended ceilings with removable panels shall be permitted within the 1.8-m (6-ft) zone.
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Well, as we have discussed elsewhere, the suspended ceiling is not structural while the top plate is and one can argue about firestops.

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Temporarily suspending any thoughts about the actual words of the code (and please let's set Charlie's Rule aside for a moment), let's talk about the intent of the "dedicated space" rule. I think it is in place so as to allow the installation of conduits in the future. Dennis said the same thing in post #2. That is why, in my opinion, the rule only applies to panelboards, switchboards, and motor control centers. We don't have to maintain dedicated space directly above a transformer, a disconnect switch, or a VFD, specifically because once it is installed there will be no need to install additional conduits in the future. That brings me to the recessed panelboard. I submit that once it is installed, you are not going to be installing any more conduits. Many of my clients will require that I include in the design the installation of empty conduits that stub up above the suspended ceiling, so as to allow for future circuits to be installed. So I don't see a problem with recessed panels.

Now back to reality. Do the words of the code essentially prohibit recessed panels on the basis that they don't have dedicated space above and below them? I think not. I think that rule would prohibit running a pipe in the recess space above a recessed panel, but it would not prohibit having insulating materials above or below the panel. And if we are talking about the header being at the top of the wall, where it meets the ceiling structure, I would say that you just reached the structural ceiling.
 
ASG said:
If it's for installation of conduits in the future, 6 feet sounds very excessive.
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Well, as Mike has said, Code is Code, We don't like the rules we don't agree with, its ok for someone else, but not if it causes us time and money.

Submit a proposal to change the 6ft to something less, you have until November of 2014. However, you will need adequate technical substantation. We have a 2017 NEC propsal topic here, where you can get help with the proposal.
 
tom baker said:
Well, as Mike has said, Code is Code, We don't like the rules we don't agree with, its ok for someone else, but not if it causes us time and money.

Submit a proposal to change the 6ft to something less, you have until November of 2014. However, you will need adequate technical substantation.
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GoldDigger said:
If you are trying to run a conduit up to the structural ceiling, you may need space that goes that far up.
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Technical substatiation? I can't prove a negative.

And as for the whole concept, I thought the whole point of the NEC is for safety. Not having the ability to go up to the structural ceiling with a future conduit is not something I would think is a safety issue.

On a similar note, one of my colleagues thinks the point of this section is so things don't fall on the panel/buss. Therefore he thinks if you recess a panel, it eliminates this issue so he even thinks having a duct be above the panel is fine once the panel is recessed.
 
Charles stated well --- when a stud wall supporting a floor/ceiling is installed the top of the wall ends the dedicated space -- within the joist is fair game for all
 
mwm1752 said:
Charles stated well --- when a stud wall supporting a floor/ceiling is installed the top of the wall ends the dedicated space -- within the joist is fair game for all
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The rule calls for 6' or to the structural ceiling which ever is less. The top plate of a wall is not a structural ceiling.
Just another code section that does not say what it should say.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
The rule calls for 6' or to the structural ceiling which ever is less. The top plate of a wall is not a structural ceiling.
Just another code section that does not say what it should say.
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A structural ceiling sets on the top plate of a bearing wall -- above the top plate can be considered structural space -- some walls are non bearing so the ceiling setting on them do not need their support -- so the bottom edge of the joist is the beginning space for the structural ceiling -- I am not bound to any distance above a panel if the non electrical piping is in the structural ceiling space -- Where did I submit the top plate was a ceiling?
 
What was said is basically that if the top plate is not part of the structural ceiling it would be an illegal intrusion into the dedicated electrical space.


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