Since 404.2 does not directly address UL or GFCIs and certainly doesn't mention either in an exception, I'd say as long as your installation is governed by the NEC, the requirement stands.
As i've seen in a previous thread, the neutral wire was required by UL where they prevent the use of the grounding conductor rather than the grounded conductor particulary for the sensors.UL is not in charge of the NEC.
There is no requirement in the NEC for any product to be listed by UL.
Not exactly. The UL standard permitted the electronic switches, such as occupancy sensors to use the equipment grounding conductor as the grounded conductor for the power to the electronics in the occupancy sensors and similar devices. They limited the current on the EGC to 0.5ma per device, but that is still an unexpected shock hazard when someone is working on the EGC, and in addition the current is additive.As i've seen in a previous thread, the neutral wire was required by UL where they prevent the use of the grounding conductor rather than the grounded conductor particulary for the sensors.
I agree with you & with Augie for the concerns result of the grounding faults hazards, but there is an informational note recommends addition for the future & one of the posts says it's required for the future, why?Not exactly. The UL standard permitted the electronic switches, such as occupancy sensors to use the equipment grounding conductor as the grounded conductor for the power to the electronics in the occupancy sensors and similar devices. They limited the current on the EGC to 0.5ma per device, but that is still an unexpected shock hazard when someone is working on the EGC, and in addition the current is additive.
It is my understanding that the NFPA was told the standard would not be changed to prohibit the EGC from being used as the grounded conductor unless the code was changed to require the grounded conductor at switch locations. The code has been changed, but I am not sure if the UL standards have been.
However, just because you don't like the rule doesn't mean that you don't have to comply with. It is the code.
In future, switch may be changed to one needing power (e.g. an electronically-controlled device such as an occupancy sensor or dimmer). BTW, it's not required if the neutral can be added in the future without requiring structural demo and repair.I agree with you & with Augie for the concerns result of the grounding faults hazards, but there is an informational note recommends addition for the future & one of the posts says it's required for the future, why?
Does it mean, for the initial wiring i can install the sensors without providing a neutral as long as the conduit fits for more wires & in case of the presence of the grounding faults the neutral should be provided?In future, switch may be changed to one needing power (e.g. an electronically-controlled device such as an occupancy sensor or dimmer). BTW, it's not required if the neutral can be added in the future without requiring structural demo and repair.
No. It means you don't have to provide a neutral if you don't need one, ie. not using sensors but rather a single pole switch, as long as you can add one later.Does it mean, for the initial wiring i can install the sensors without providing a neutral as long as the conduit fits for more wires & in case of the presence of the grounding faults the neutral should be provided?
Right, but this explains the informational note not the exception.No. It means you don't have to provide a neutral if you don't need one, ie. not using sensors but rather a single pole switch, as long as you can add one later.
There are NEC sections that require certain items to be listed by a NRTL though, UL just happens to be about the most popular NRTL.UL is not in charge of the NEC.
There is no requirement in the NEC for any product to be listed by UL.
Look at it this way. The code requires you to provide the grounded conductor at the switch location at the time the switch box is installed only if it would be difficult to install the grounded conductor at a later date. The methods permitted in the exception, to install a grounded conductor at a future time, are not difficult.Right, but this explains the informational note not the exception.
Not if the sensor or other device being installed requires a grounded conductor.Does it mean, for the initial wiring i can install the sensors without providing a neutral
I am not sure what you mean about "grounding faults". This rule has nothing to do with faults of any type. It is just a requirement to provide easy access to a grounded conductor for devices that require a grounded conductor.... as long as the conduit fits for more wires & in case of the presence of the grounding faults the neutral should be provided?
Not exactly. The UL standard permitted the electronic switches, such as occupancy sensors to use the equipment grounding conductor as the grounded conductor for the power to the electronics in the occupancy sensors and similar devices. They limited the current on the EGC to 0.5ma per device, but that is still an unexpected shock hazard when someone is working on the EGC, and in addition the current is additive.
It is my understanding that the NFPA was told the standard would not be changed to prohibit the EGC from being used as the grounded conductor unless the code was changed to require the grounded conductor at switch locations. The code has been changed, but I am not sure if the UL standards have been.
However, just because you don't like the rule doesn't mean that you don't have to comply with. It is the code.
Theses devices, that are listed, use the EGC as a grounded conductor to provide power to the internal electronics per the listing standard.Was this an isolated EGC installation? If not if the EGC was tied to other EGCs you have 'bonded' a grounded conductor past the main disconnect. ...
Theses devices, that are listed, use the EGC as a grounded conductor to provide power to the internal electronics per the listing standard.
I don't agree that the use of the EGC in place of a grounded conductor creates an additional grounded to grounding bond. It is just simply using the EGC for a purpose that it is not intended to be used for. That being said, there is no specific wording in the NEC that says you can't use an EGC as a grounded conductor.
That would be an identification violation.200.6 Means of Identifying Grounded Conductors.
(A) Sizes 6 AWG or Smaller. An insulated grounded conductor
of 6 AWG or smaller shall be identified by one of
the following means:
(1) A continuous white outer finish.
(2) A continuous gray outer finish.
(3) Three continuous white stripes along the conductor?s
entire length on other than green insulation.
(4) Wires that have their outer covering finished to show a
white or gray color but have colored tracer threads in
the braid identifying the source of manufacture shall be
considered as meeting the provisions of this section.
That pretty much eliminates the EGC. Correct?