Foam Walls
- Thread starter laketime
- Start date
- Status
John120/240
Senior Member
- Location
- Olathe, Kansas
I have never used one but on this Forum it has been said that electric charcoal starters are the thing to use.
stevenje
Senior Member
- Location
- Yachats Oregon
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
I've never gotten more exotic than a flex bit.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Wait a sec. Are you talking SIP or ICF?
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
I have used similar tools, one of the local lumberyards that sells insulated concrete forms has one similar to what is in your link that they let people use - in general no charge if you bought your forms from them. Anyway I have used it a few times and it is the cat's meow compared to any other method I have ever tried. It has variable heat adjustment but if you get it just right it is like running a hot knife through butter. It comes with extra "blades" which is essentially the heating element and you can bend them to any shape/size desired so you have some ability to vary the size of cut based on how you form the "blade". If you can't find one elsewhere I would go to a place that sells the insulated concrete forms - they likely can get you one. The one I used I think has the "Reward" name on it, and the canvas bag that all the components are in, though it is probably made by someone else and branded with that name - this particular place sells "Reward" wall systems.
Fulthrotl
~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
- Occupation
- E
it's been discussed here before.... i've not ran across it yet, but if i did,
i'd be tempted to cut an 8' long by 10" wide piece of 1/2" plywood, and make a
router template for a 4s box, at plug height, switch height, etc. and use a
small router. set the depth shy of the concrete, etc. and where you want
a box, run the router around.
the template would give you a nice clean cutout, and support the router
so you didn't gouge in, and hit concrete, and you could make a slot the
length of the board as a guide to cut the channels. put some drywall
screws thru the board, so they'd stick out an inch, and hold the thing
in place to the foam, and zip away.
it'd cut thru the plastic frame of he blocks as well, so you'd be good to
go. if you used a router with good dust extraction, and a shop vac, it'd
be a pretty painless operation.
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kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
I've tried routers before, they are about the worst thing I have used for this. Router is too high of speed, it heats up the foam enough it melts on the bit and the bit just keeps getting bigger the more you use it, plus once it has some layer on it, it isn't cutting as much as it is burning its way through the material. It is also a little difficult to find a bit that will remove full depth in a single pass.
Not to mention you will look like a snow man and the entire work site will be covered in styrofoam :lol:. I would gladly take a hot knife!
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
Well he was planning to try to use a dust collection system, may help but I bet there is still plenty that gets missed, and it also becomes static charged and seems to stick to about everything you don't want it to.
Fulthrotl
~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
- Occupation
- E
it's whatcha call a "six beer hot flash".....
seemed like a good idea, except for the heat.....
you'd need a plunge router that could get the
whole thing in one plunge... i've got a router
that'll do a 3" plunge in one swoop, and has
pretty good dust extraction, to the extent
that you have to remove the dust instantly,
or it'll melt, as you say.
hm. there's some 1' thick building EPS at
work, they have some extra left over on a
pallet... and i have my router and vac there....
don't ask why.
and some plywood, for concrete forms so i could
make a template.....
i'm about to run a terminal experiment on
a router bit... i'll let ya know how it turns out.
(film at 11)
elf friend
Member
- Location
- wisconsin's east shore
Over the past three years I have wired roughly 15 sip houses for a contractor who specialises in SIP high end construction and this installer told me that you could not cut the plywood out between the boxes as that would weaken the structure. What I do is arange as many of the devices on an interior wall. When I have to put devices on an exterior (SIP) wall I will put my outlets nor more than six feet apart. Overkill, yes, but it makes it easyier to instal the chase. What I do is take an old eight foot long by 5/8" drill bit and put a slight curve in it. Just so if the middle is on the floor both ends are roughly three inches up. Take a butane torch and heat the tip up cherry hot and carefully guide it to the next box. For longer runs I will cut the osb with a three inch hole saw just deep enough to reach the foam and again run my heated drill bit to the next opening about six feet away. When I am done pulling wires I will then take a one inch wide piece of osb about five inches long and stuff that in the hole so both ends are in about an inch and then with one inch drywall screws fasten this piece to the ceiling/wall and then fasten the three inch cutout onto that strip. Probable could skip this as the drywall will cover it in the end but by doing this you, 1-protect the wires and, 2-impress the owner with you dedication and worksmanship.
As a side note whenever I do these houses I always figure on using about 50% more 14/2, 14/3 and 12/2 then a a normal stick frame house.
If I can I will help you with the tricks I have learned over the years. The First SIP house I did was 3500 sq ft and it took me almost 180 hours to rough it in. The last one I did was about 4750 sq ft and I was able to rough that one in less than 100 hours working as a one man gang.
As a side note whenever I do these houses I always figure on using about 50% more 14/2, 14/3 and 12/2 then a a normal stick frame house.
If I can I will help you with the tricks I have learned over the years. The First SIP house I did was 3500 sq ft and it took me almost 180 hours to rough it in. The last one I did was about 4750 sq ft and I was able to rough that one in less than 100 hours working as a one man gang.
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jumper
Senior Member
- Location
- 3 Hr 2 Min from Winged Horses
Cool. Reminds me of your Wago thread a few years ago.
Fulthrotl
~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
- Occupation
- E
the wago's did ok... i think they pulled about 90 amps, but got a little bit melty,
about like smores.....
but the poster up there.... ^^^^ has some first hand information that is
worth some money, so we should pay attention......
Fulthrotl
~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
- Occupation
- E
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
If it is a house built with SIP's, yes. They are a pain. Almost as bad as a log home.
texie
Senior Member
- Location
- Fort Collins, Colorado
- Occupation
- Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
Interesting comments. Sounds like you have a good grip on SIP. Woe the poor guy who takes one of these without understanding the unique difficulties.
I once did a SIP house with the added difficulty that it was also timber frame, which further limited the conventional framing to run wiring. Like you, I used some of the tricks you mention.
One thing I did to secure the device boxes was to use foam (the commercial stuff they use to assemble SIP panels). We just partially filled the opening with foam, set the box, and then scab a piece of wood across the face with drywall screws until it sets. We did the same where we cut 3 or 4 inch holes for access- just fill the hole with foam and place the OSB plug from the hole saw and scab a piece of wood over it until the foam sets.
elf friend
Member
- Location
- wisconsin's east shore
I think it was my third SIP house that was a timber frame and yes it was quite the experiance with the track lighting mounted on the to of the horizontal timbers in the great room and two ceiling fans mounted on the very top timber. If I where to do that one again I think I would add about five grand to my bid. I am working on a timber frame SIP now for an artist and his wife and they are using all these old and very heavy fixtures. This one is really fun figuring out how to support boxes that will need to support about fifty pounds.
When I do these I use the grey plastic boxes with the metal nail strip on one side and the plastic 1/2" support piece on the other side. Works OK for me.
When I do these I use the grey plastic boxes with the metal nail strip on one side and the plastic 1/2" support piece on the other side. Works OK for me.
Fulthrotl
~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
- Occupation
- E
i've not ever seen them used on the left coast..... i'm ok with that....
are they assembled in 4' sections, or is a large wall segment made up in a factory and shipped whole?
if they were 4' wide, i'd be trying to figure out a way to drill across them right at plug height on
each panel..... before they were put into place.
i just can't help myself. i like puzzles. some people play suduko, but i'm not smart enough for that.
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
Structural Insulated Panels; two pieces of OSB sandwiched over expanded foam. That's what makes the structure. No studs except where the panels lap.i've not ever seen them used on the left coast..... i'm ok with that....
are they assembled in 4' sections, or is a large wall segment made up in a factory and shipped whole?
if they were 4' wide, i'd be trying to figure out a way to drill across them right at plug height on
each panel..... before they were put into place.
i just can't help myself. i like puzzles. some people play suduko, but i'm not smart enough for that.
They come from the factory ready to be put together like a jigsaw puzzle; only you don't have to search for the right piece, it's numbered and labelled. A couple of flat-bed trailers worth go up in eight hours, including set up, coffee breaks, lunch, and clean up. Good stuff for the framing crew.
You don't need to drill much because they have pre bored tunnels that criss-cross in the foam. That is what makes it seem like it will be so freaking easy. Wiring one is a lot like fishing new circuits in an old house.
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