House wiring with 2011 nec

[J.P.]

I have never wired a house. Today I am wiring a house ( boss's buddy ). Usually I do commercial offices or industrial shops.

In the bathrooms there is a can over the showers/ tubs. a heat/ light/ vent combo and vanity lights.

My helper had wired houses at his last job. He said it was normal to put the whole bathroom on the load side of the GFI..... I really don't like that idea.

I would rather put a GfI breaker on the whole room and just let the GFI recep be the end of the line instead of feeding the lights. So if the recep trips the lights stay on.

Do GFI breakers get along with lights. I have had bad luck with GFI receps feeding lights in the past, usually on temporary power poles.


As I understand it the whole rest of the house needs to be AFCI? Except perhaps kitchen GFI's and garage GFI"s..... I didn't find what I was looking for there.

We just moved to the 2011 code cycle in our state if that helps.

 

[kwired]

I have never wired a house. Today I am wiring a house ( boss's buddy ). Usually I do commercial offices or industrial shops.

In the bathrooms there is a can over the showers/ tubs. a heat/ light/ vent combo and vanity lights.

My helper had wired houses at his last job. He said it was normal to put the whole bathroom on the load side of the GFI..... I really don't like that idea.

I would rather put a GfI breaker on the whole room and just let the GFI recep be the end of the line instead of feeding the lights. So if the recep trips the lights stay on.

Do GFI breakers get along with lights. I have had bad luck with GFI receps feeding lights in the past, usually on temporary power poles.


As I understand it the whole rest of the house needs to be AFCI? Except perhaps kitchen GFI's and garage GFI"s..... I didn't find what I was looking for there.

We just moved to the 2011 code cycle in our state if that helps.

Though it is not in print, one general rule to follow is if 210.52(A) requires receptacles in the space then AFCI protection is likely needed in that space, for all outlets not just receptacle outlets. Now it sounds like that approach will not work in the 2014 but works fairly well with 2011.

As far as the fan, fan/light over the tub, NEC does not require GFCI protection, but almost any unit you will find will say GFCI is necessary in the instructions, so that means it is required by 110.3(B). I will generally either try to not locate directly over the tub to avoid needing GFCI, or if over the tub only place that particular light on the load side of a GFCI receptacle located in that bath, but not put other lighting in same room on GFCI, that way a trip doesn't leave you in the dark. If it has a heater, you don't want it over the tub/shower you want it just outside so you can stand under the heater while drying off, and since it is not over the tub/shower it probably doesn't call for GFCI protection.

 

[J.P.]

They want a can light right over the tub and they need one in their walk in shower.

The fan/heat/light is going towards the center.

The vanity is going to be mounted at eye level 3" off center of the sink

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Make sure the unit is rated for over the shower. I have never seen a fan/heater unit or any combo with heat over the shower. IMO it is a bad idea

 

[fmtjfw]

Note that if you have GFCI receptacle fed by a GFCI breaker, you have no way of knowing which one will trip if a ground fault occurs in a device plugged into the outlet.

If you want to prevent the lights from going out on such a fault, you need to feed the receptacle from another breaker.

 

[infinity]

The fan/heat/light would likely require it's own circuit. For everything else, if it needs GFCI protection I would use a receptacle within the bathroom and not a circuit breaker located somewhere else.

 

[kwired]

They want a can light right over the tub and they need one in their walk in shower.

The fan/heat/light is going towards the center.

The vanity is going to be mounted at eye level 3" off center of the sink

Thanks for the clarification.

Regular can lights usually never mention GFCI in any instructions, it is the fan/light units that usually mention GFCI in their instructions. NEC doesn't specifically require either to be GFCI protected.

Not certain about just what you are getting at with the vanity. Eye level (for most people) is probably a little low for a wall luminaire. If you have a mirror above the vanity chances are it extends some above average person eye level otherwise they would need to squat down to utilize the mirror for looking at face/hair.

 

[growler]

In the bathrooms there is a can over the showers/ tubs. a heat/ light/ vent combo and vanity lights.

My helper had wired houses at his last job. He said it was normal to put the whole bathroom on the load side of the GFI.

The fan/heat/light would likely require it's own circuit.

I agree the heat/fan/light will need it's own circuit. The rest of the lights will not need to be GFCI protected.

The cans for the shower will need a sealed shower trim.

 

[david]

Do GFI breakers get along with lights. I have had bad luck with GFI receps feeding lights in the past, usually on temporary power pole. /QUOTE]

Just as a side note 590.4 (D) Doesn't want the temp lighting to be dependent on the branch circuit for the temp receptacles.

 

[mwm1752]

HVL definitely needs separate circuit as it most likely would exceed the 50% of circuit if the recept & lighting is on the same circuit of the bathroom. Personally I always kept the bathroom recept as a dedicated circuit (which is better than code ) and put the lighting on a general circuit. 1- 1500 w hair dryer & misc lighting plus what ever maybe plugged in can be a pain to homeowners. Some will put 2 or more bathrooms recept on a single circuit in which you could have multiple hair dryers working(still legal but not not preference.)

 

[growler]

Some will put 2 or more bathrooms recept on a single circuit in which you could have multiple hair dryers working(still legal but not not preference.)

I have seen a 5000 SQ FT house that was ment to sell for over $500K that had all 5 bathrooms with their receptacles on the same circuit ( to include the master bath).

That's what they get when they look at minimum price quote only.

 

[kwired]

I have seen a 5000 SQ FT house that was ment to sell for over $500K that had all 5 bathrooms with their receptacles on the same circuit ( to include the master bath).

That's what they get when they look at minimum price quote only.

Doesn't matter what the house is meant to sell for, does matter when they think they are only going to spend $2500 on wiring though, and most of that is expected to be fixtures and things the user actually sees on a regular basis, leaving only $250-500 all that is expected for all concealed items:roll:

 

[mwm1752]

I have seen a 5000 SQ FT house that was ment to sell for over $500K that had all 5 bathrooms with their receptacles on the same circuit ( to include the master bath).

That's what they get when they look at minimum price quote only.

Never said it was non compliant just wasn't the way I did business -- I'm sure some jobs didn't come my way due to price but the repeats from doing the work were there. Some will drive home the lowest price to get the job which usually cost more to the customer than my original price. I'd rather be upfront & honest for a better reputation. IMHO

 

[Sierrasparky]

The fan/heat/light would likely require it's own circuit. For everything else, if it needs GFCI protection I would use a receptacle within the bathroom and not a circuit breaker located somewhere else.

Ditto

 

[jaylectricity]

Just like this site to misread the OP and go off on a million tangents.

J.P.

#1 It is permissible to use the 20A bathroom circuit to power anything else in the bathroom as long as that bathroom is the only thing on the circuit.
#2 You do not need to put everything on the load side of the GFCI. Don't waste money on a GFCI breaker, either. Most GFCI receptacles have terminals rated for two conductors. You can feed in and out on the line side of the GFCI.
#3 It is advisable to put a separate circuit for the fan/vent/heat. GFCI protection will not be required, nor will the shower recessed light.
#4 2011 NEC means you need AFCI in almost all areas except kitchen and bathroom. Use this to plan your circuits. For instance, don't share a lighting circuit between your kitchen and dining room. Dining and living room can be on the same circuit so that you can AFCI that.

 

[J.P.]

Just like this site to misread the OP and go off on a million tangents.

J.P.

#1 It is permissible to use the 20A bathroom circuit to power anything else in the bathroom as long as that bathroom is the only thing on the circuit.
#2 You do not need to put everything on the load side of the GFCI. Don't waste money on a GFCI breaker, either. Most GFCI receptacles have terminals rated for two conductors. You can feed in and out on the line side of the GFCI.
#3 It is advisable to put a separate circuit for the fan/vent/heat. GFCI protection will not be required, nor will the shower recessed light.
#4 2011 NEC means you need AFCI in almost all areas except kitchen and bathroom. Use this to plan your circuits. For instance, don't share a lighting circuit between your kitchen and dining room. Dining and living room can be on the same circuit so that you can AFCI that.

This pretty much what I found in the codebook.

I had gotten my head stuck on GFI's protecting bathroom lights because a OKC inspector made us put in these special lighting rated GFI devices in every hotel bathroom. But that was a city rule.

The fan combo pulls 11A with a 100watt lamp then I have a led can and a small vanity. So I should be ok.

There is a girl for each bathroom so the power get's it's own circuit, just like the lighting does.

It's a 2700 sq ft house and like I said the belongs to our boss's friends........ We will be overdoing it Besides it's never easier than now to pull wire.

Tangent's on forums are to be expected. BTW the vanity light at eye height was a joke.......

 

[infinity]

An 11 amp fan/heat/light combo unit cannot go on the 20 amp bathroom circuit.

 

[readydave8]

never mind.

 

[J.P.]

An 11 amp fan/heat/light combo unit cannot go on the 20 amp bathroom circuit.

Why not? My total lighting load in the bathroom is 12A. The GfI recep is on a separate circuit.

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

Why not? My total lighting load in the bathroom is 12A. The GfI recep is on a separate circuit.

210.23(A)(2) Utilization equipment fastened in place cannot exceed 50% of the branch circuit rating.